The Incomparable Mike Vick

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The stats don't lie! Apparently, he had the best game as an NFL quarterback....statistically. (At least the best since all of those stats have been recorded.)
 
I still like the boy.... Does that count for anything. Not really. I only mean Vick is great talent wise. Is he is out there concerning Christ?. So, is Tony Dungy out there? Are they men of integrity? Yes, I hope they are. I believe Michael and Tony share a common faith. I hope so. I hope they believe the orthodox Christian teachings of Christ and His Sacrifice. But they have their lives to live and I have mine. I sincerely believe that the 4th commandment is violated by the NFL, Nascar, and other guys who do their things on Sunday. But Hey, who am I. I know what God thinks. (LOL) Just ask me. I will tell you. Look at my blogs.
 
Randy, I would agree with you that watching NFL or Nascar on the Lord's day violates the 4th commandment, but are you saying it's wrong to watch them on other days as well?
 
Do you want to encourage sin? I don't. I believe their playing on the Lord's day is sin. I have to admit that I do watch some things ever now and again because I am with family. But I personally think this is a National sin we are paying for and will pay for. It is a modern day phenomenon. These things should be done on Saturday or Friday. After all. Nascar and the NFL have a lot of time between their games. Why can't they submit to God's commands? I believe it is because it is a device of the devil to take us away from what we should do. Why can't they play on other days besides the Lord's day? They have how long to practice and repair? Go figure?
 
but the question must remain why in the world is such a game against the worst team in the league something to hoot about? So he put up big stats. That is not what makes his performance "the greatest game ever played by an NFL quarterback." He had the biggest stats according to some particular raw numbers... but in no way can this be claimed to be "the greatest game" unless all you are concerned about is yards. Great games are not made merely by yards put up against an extremely porous defense. A game like this against a real team would be something....
 
Mr. Vick is playing better now (in this short season so far) then he did when he was with Atlanta. Statistically he had a great game against a team that (barely) beat his team earlier in the year. He can't pick his opponents, he can only play who's in front of him. So I have no argument with Andrew's assertion. Yet...

The greatest performance I can remember from a quarterback was not even a full game. It was also a Monday Night game, I believe, and Jim McMahon was the injured starter. He came off the bench and threw only 5 passes - 3 bombs for touchdowns, all in the first half if memory serves, to "lead" the Bears to a win. If there's a Bears fan who can corroborate my recall, I tried to find more specifics but couldn't do so.
 
you can post your :down: all you want. You're not hurting my feelings any but apparently I stepped on some toes. I did not accuse anyone here of being racial at all. I don't see where anyone has. I was making that point that for a person (anyone, here on PB or elsewhere) to deny that Vick's performance in the Monday night game was nothing short of spectacular, would have to be biased against Vick in some way. The reason I say this is because statistically it was proven to be one of the best NFL games every played by a QB. So then what would be the reasons someone would not give Vick his due credit? The only answer is a bias of some sort. What biases could possibly exist against Vick? Well let's see (in no particular order):
1) don't like the Eagles
2) don't like Vick because of the dog-fighting history
3) don't like the new, younger breed of NFL players
4) don't like to see a black QB (traditionally in times past a 'white' role) having success
5) this one's a stretch but maybe a Redskins fan?

If you don't exhibit any of those biases against Vick, then good, because one has no reason to, but please don't try to convince me that no one hold any of those biases because I personally know that to be untrue.

Why must there be a bias in this case? It was a game in which Vick took apart a really crappy defense.

Suppose a pitcher recorded 27 strikeouts in a game, but the game was one in which the opposing team (legally) had called up 9 of its rookie A-league players
and gave them one day contracts to play against this pitcher.

That would, statistically speaking, be the best game ever pitched.

Or would it?

Of course it wouldn't. It'd be quite remarkable, but nobody in their right mind would call that "the greatest game ever pitched". Same here (even if the situation
isn't as extreme). Greatness is measured in FAR more than yards and touchdowns.
 
Do you want to encourage sin? I don't. I believe their playing on the Lord's day is sin. I have to admit that I do watch some things ever now and again because I am with family. But I personally think this is a National sin we are paying for and will pay for. It is a modern day phenomenon. These things should be done on Saturday or Friday. After all. Nascar and the NFL have a lot of time between their games. Why can't they submit to God's commands? I believe it is because it is a device of the devil to take us away from what we should do. Why can't they play on other days besides the Lord's day? They have how long to practice and repair? Go figure?

So would you think it wrong to east at a restaurant on Tuesday for lunch if that restaurant is open on Sundays too? Because using your reasoning it would be wrong because one would be supporting a Sabbath-breaker. Do you see restaurants as national sin too?

---------- Post added at 07:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 AM ----------

you can post your :down: all you want. You're not hurting my feelings any but apparently I stepped on some toes. I did not accuse anyone here of being racial at all. I don't see where anyone has. I was making that point that for a person (anyone, here on PB or elsewhere) to deny that Vick's performance in the Monday night game was nothing short of spectacular, would have to be biased against Vick in some way. The reason I say this is because statistically it was proven to be one of the best NFL games every played by a QB. So then what would be the reasons someone would not give Vick his due credit? The only answer is a bias of some sort. What biases could possibly exist against Vick? Well let's see (in no particular order):
1) don't like the Eagles
2) don't like Vick because of the dog-fighting history
3) don't like the new, younger breed of NFL players
4) don't like to see a black QB (traditionally in times past a 'white' role) having success
5) this one's a stretch but maybe a Redskins fan?

If you don't exhibit any of those biases against Vick, then good, because one has no reason to, but please don't try to convince me that no one hold any of those biases because I personally know that to be untrue.

Why must there be a bias in this case? It was a game in which Vick took apart a really crappy defense.

Suppose a pitcher recorded 27 strikeouts in a game, but the game was one in which the opposing team (legally) had called up 9 of its rookie A-league players
and gave them one day contracts to play against this pitcher.

That would, statistically speaking, be the best game ever pitched.

Or would it?

Of course it wouldn't. It'd be quite remarkable, but nobody in their right mind would call that "the greatest game ever pitched". Same here (even if the situation
isn't as extreme). Greatness is measured in FAR more than yards and touchdowns.

I would agree with you that the circumstances surrounding a game should be taken into consideration and in an earlier post I conceded that a normal MNF game coulnd not compare to a playoff game or other big game, but your analogy is simply ridiculous and doesn't hold weight. The Eagles were playing a normal NFL defense not some ragtag group of guys off the streets. The Redskins are not the worst team in the NFL and as BJ mentioned the Redskins had even beaten the Eagles in their earlier meeting. Stop acting like Vick and the Eagles played some junior high team.
 
I would agree with you that the circumstances surrounding a game should be taken into consideration and in an earlier post I conceded that a normal MNF game coulnd not compare to a playoff game or other big game, but your analogy is simply ridiculous and doesn't hold weight. The Eagles were playing a normal NFL defense not some ragtag group of guys off the streets. The Redskins are not the worst team in the NFL and as BJ mentioned the Redskins had even beaten the Eagles in their earlier meeting. Stop acting like Vick and the Eagles played some junior high team.

On defense they are. That's a fact. (And their offense is 21st in the league. Not much better.) See NFL Stats.

This week will only add to the Redskins' misery, but the fact remains that Vick lit up the worst team in the NFL. Been done before. No doubt it will be done again. It was not a great game, historically speaking, by any stretch of the imagination.
 
What biases could possibly exist against Vick? Well let's see (in no particular order):
1) don't like the Eagles
2) don't like Vick because of the dog-fighting history
3) don't like the new, younger breed of NFL players
4) don't like to see a black QB (traditionally in times past a 'white' role) having success
5) this one's a stretch but maybe a Redskins fan?

I don't care about football or what color someone is. I just think it's a stretch to start proclaiming him "Incomparable" when there are plenty of players who haven't been forgotten in the last 30 years to compare him to. He sounds great, but he hasn't done anything to be remembered as such.

He also fought dogs. *GASP*
 
I would agree with you that the circumstances surrounding a game should be taken into consideration and in an earlier post I conceded that a normal MNF game coulnd not compare to a playoff game or other big game, but your analogy is simply ridiculous and doesn't hold weight. The Eagles were playing a normal NFL defense not some ragtag group of guys off the streets. The Redskins are not the worst team in the NFL and as BJ mentioned the Redskins had even beaten the Eagles in their earlier meeting. Stop acting like Vick and the Eagles played some junior high team.

On defense they are. That's a fact. (And their offense is 21st in the league. Not much better.) See NFL Stats.

This week will only add to the Redskins' misery, but the fact remains that Vick lit up the worst team in the NFL. Been done before. No doubt it will be done again. It was not a great game, historically speaking, by any stretch of the imagination.

What Vick did Monday night has been done before? I challenge you to show me when. And yeah the Redskins are last in total yards now, AFTER the Eagle game. Your stats include that game in which Vick and the Eagles racked up 592 yards of offense. Several teams would have dropped to last place after having 600 yards of O put up on them.

---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 AM ----------

He sounds great, but he hasn't done anything to be remembered as such.

You say you don't care about football so how would you know?
 
Because I don't like football yet I know who Payton Manning and John Elway are. I know who Michael Vick is because I did a mock trial problem about his dog fighting junk; I don't know him because he's a great football player. The only evidence I have of his football prowess are the stats that you posted that he scored against a team that seems to objectively emit odor of an undesireable type.

Is Mohammed Ali great because he put up great stats against terrible boxers? No. He's great because he put up great stats against the best in some of the biggest fights in boxing.

You're proclaiming Vick's greatness because he essentially put up the best stats in history against the professional football equivalent of a high school football team (a bad one at that). That's not great. It's just notable.
 
Vick is magnificently gifted. He seems to have developed some newfound skills such as looking off defenders and picking up secondary or outlet receivers. This field generalship was a major deficiency during the Atlanta years. The test will be Vick’s ability/willingness to absorb the punishment endemic with the practice of those skills. Much more painful to be hit when you are stationary then when on the move. If Vick develops his pocket awareness, pocket footwork and stays healthy, he could elevate NFL play to another level. Naturally, the solid defenses will adapt and adapting to the adaptations is altogether another test. Effectively reading the defense could be his lynchpin. The greats all have/had that in common. Time on the field making defenses tired helps a lot too. That is largely courtesy of the defense but also the running game. That brings up my last point; teammates. Offensive line backs and outs. Let's not neglect the hands that add to QB greatness - the receivers! Go Michael, Go Eagles!
 
This week will only add to the Redskins' misery, but the fact remains that Vick lit up the worst team in the NFL. Been done before. No doubt it will be done again. It was not a great game, historically speaking, by any stretch of the imagination.

What Vick did Monday night has been done before? I challenge you to show me when. And yeah the Redskins are last in total yards now, AFTER the Eagle game. Your stats include that game in which Vick and the Eagles racked up 592 yards of offense. Several teams would have dropped to last place after having 600 yards of O put up on them.

The "been done before" line was in reference to my comment that a decent QB lit up the worst defensive team in the NFL. That's been done before. The Redskins are just the current victim.

The game was not as memorable as some folks make it out to be, in my opinion. It was basically a personal MV punt, pass, and kick competition. Let’s see what he can do in the playoffs/Super Bowl when the going gets tough. :)

---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

You're proclaiming Vick's greatness because he essentially put up the best stats in history against the professional football equivalent of a high school football team (a bad one at that). That's not great. It's just notable.

Exactly.
 
Not one person on this thread has maligned the man's talent. He is an exceptionally talented QB. I truly hope that his mentorship with Coach Dungy has led to his conversion and a faithful walk. What Todd has written is true. Great skills in a regular game in which neither he nor his team were ever seriously challenged is not how 'greatness' is normally defined.

Will Vick join the group of truly great QB's? Men like Otto Graham, Staubach, Bradshaw, Elway, Griese, Montana, Unitas, and some who are still playing like Favre and P. Manning have not only great skills, but they also possess unique qualities that cannot be measured statistically. These are men who have proven against easy teams, difficult teams, playing with seriously teams against really bad odds and consistently pull off victories; in games which often statistically should have been won by the other team according the all the after game stats . . . except for the one that matters.
 
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