The Life of Leonard Ravenhill

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Just came across this Ravenhill quote this evening:

"There is a cowardly Christianity which...still comforts its fainting heart with the hope that there will be a rapture - perhaps today - to catch us away from coming tribulation" (Sodom Had No Bible, p. 94).

I haven't read Why Revival Tarries, but I used to have Sodom Had No Bible. My recollection is that the essay with the same name as the title is alone worth the price of the book.

Ravenhill said very wise things occasionally in his life. I really like the following quotes:

"If weak in prayer, we are weak everywhere."

"Men give advice; God gives guidance."

"Are the things you are living for worth Christ dying for?"

"The Church used to be a lifeboat rescuing the perishing. Now she is a cruise ship recruiting the promising."

"My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."

"If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach today, He would never have been crucified."

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I think Paul Washer is also referrring to all the boring and passionless Calvinist preachers out there today. I love Mark Dever, but his sermons are better than Ambien for putting people to sleep. It is ok to be passionate as long as its genuine.

 

[Pilgrim]

Ravenhill said very wise things occasionally in his life. I really like the following quotes:

"If weak in prayer, we are weak everywhere."

"Men give advice; God gives guidance."

"Are the things you are living for worth Christ dying for?"

"The Church used to be a lifeboat rescuing the perishing. Now she is a cruise ship recruiting the promising."

"My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."

"If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach today, He would never have been crucified."

Vance Havner was another 20th Century leader who was known for making pithy statements such as these in his day.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Actually, if you watched the video on the site, the "story teller" says that Ravenhill held to Total Depravity.

Or at least his version of it.

"No man is greater than his prayer life," I'd say that's nothing more than Christ saying, "Pray without ceasing." It is an unnecessary conclusion that one should pray in private. Prayer is absolutely necessary in every area of our lives!

Don't know of anyone who has argued that prayer was unnecessary. I am just arguing against the idea that a man's spirituality can be measured by the amount of prayer he performs every day. Most Muslims pray more than Christians, but that does not mean that they are better than the Christians.

 

[Rufus]

I think Paul Washer is also referrring to all the boring and passionless Calvinist preachers out there today. I love Mark Dever, but his sermons are better than Ambien for putting people to sleep. It is ok to be passionate as long as its genuine.

Some people that could get written off as boring and passionless really are passionate there preaching style just doesn't express it, while others can make a big show and really have no care for the lost or the advancing of the Gospel. I've found that some WoF tv preachers are very passionate for ALL of the wrong reasons.

 

[Reformed Roman]

Leonard is only saying that without prayer we are nothing as Christians. Prayer is one of the most overlooked things in the Christian life. We can slam arminians for being man centered but without prayer all we are is man centered. Without prayer we look at ourselves to perform, to live for the LORD when He is the one alone who holds the power. We need to daily rely on Him, and His Holy Spirit to guide our lives. But without communing with God, and asking for these things how will they be so? God uses prayer as a means. Let us not overlook it. Just like many Calvanist teachers have strong points, sometimes Arminians can teach us a lot. That doesn't mean all Calvanists have the same weak points and all Arminians have the same strong points. But Ravenhill is a guy who could teach you more about prayer and what it means to "deny self" and "take up our crosses daily" then most people could. When we look down on Arminians due to our "superior theology" we forget about the fact that many of them are strong in their faith and can teach us many things. Pride kills, and of course, that's another reason to pray.

Please, nobody take this post and take it out of context. No, we shouldn't be buddhists. Yes, we need to live the Word. And yes, we have to work. And get in our Word too. Which is also of course extremely vital for Christian living. Don't use those other things and their importance to take you away from the importance of prayer.

This biography would be a great buy. And perhaps when I'm finished with the set of books I'm reading, I'll pick it up.

 

[elnwood]

I'm new to this discussion, but having perused it, I'm really surprised at the amount of criticism this book has gotten.

One of the reasons why I am surprised is that the book cited is a biography of the Ravenhill, not a book written by Ravenhill himself. We read historical biographies of people who aren't Christians all the time. I don't think we need to be told that it is not profitable to do so, or be warned about the man-centeredness of it, even though a non-Christian is surely more man-centered than an Arminian evangelist.

The other reason I'm surprised by the criticism is that the only person in this discussion who has read the book is Paul Washer, and he gives it a ringing endorsement. Now, there very well may be parts of the biography that are unprofitable because of Ravenhill's Arminianism, but none of us can really say. At this point I'm more inclined to go with Washer's recommendation over the criticism, not merely because he is a great Calvinist evangelist, but because he has actually read the book and can speak for it.

However, I do think there is an important place for constructive criticism, and I do not want to limit critical discussion. What I suggest for those who want to be constructive and edifying with their criticism is to read the book, and blog post a review on the Puritan Board discussing what parts were helpful and what parts we ought to be warned about.

I look forward to such a review! I think that would greatly enhance our discussion.

 

[Notthemama1984]

We read historical biographies of people who aren't Christians all the time.

I read baseball biographies to learn about baseball. I read military biographies to learn about military tactics. If I were to read a biography of an Arminian evangelists, it would be to learn how Arminian evangelists conduct ministry.

The first two examples could be profitable, but I can't see how the latter would be.

 

[py3ak]

I read baseball biographies to learn about baseball. I read military biographies to learn about military tactics. If I were to read a biography of an Arminian evangelists, it would be to learn how Arminian evangelists conduct ministry.

The first two examples could be profitable, but I can't see how the latter would be.

That seems like an amazingly truncated view of a biography: you read through the whole life of a person to learn about what they did at work? I don't know that I've ever read a biography that would be reasonably approached that way.

 

[moral necessity]

Leonard Ravenhill grew out of the British Holiness Movement, which was an offshoot of both the Wesleyan Revivalist Movement, as well as the American Holiness Movement, whose leaders were Charles Finney and Pearsall/Hannah Smith. The emphasis of these influences centered around entire sanctification available by faith. I hope the biography brings all of this out.

http://www.regal-network.com/chm/files/pdf/british_holiness_movement.pdf

Blessings!

 

[Notthemama1984]

That seems like an amazingly truncated view of a biography: you read through the whole life of a person to learn about what they did at work? I don't know that I've ever read a biography that would be reasonably approached that way.

Well I am not going to read a biography of Patton to see what his favorite cigar was. The biography might mention his favorite cigar, but the focus of the bio is on his military actions.

I am not going to read a biography of Mickey Mantle to learn what he read in his spare time. I am reading to see what his approach to baseball was.

I am sorry if this seems truncated, but I really do not see a different reason to read biographies.

Also it is not that I am reading a biography to learn what they did at work, but am reading a biography to learn more about what they were known for.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I have read a few great biographies about semi-pelagians. I really appreciated their reliance upon the Lord. Arnold Dallimore did a lot of work on the Great Awakening and even did a good bio on Charles Wesley. The Whitefield bio was a compilation of all the movements and people around Whitefield. The Navigator ministry was started by a semi-pelagian as were most of the para-church organizations many of us have benefited from. God used some of these good men. It is great to see the works of God in their lives. Their theologies might have had wholes in them but ours do also probably. I have greatly benefited from many semi-pelagians.

BTW, some of you guys scare me. You might crucify me for finding benefit from semi-pelagians. At least I grew getting to know some things about others that I disagreed with.

BTW, I am sure Leonard Ravenhill prayed before an open Bible. I am most willing to bet a lot of his moaning and rejoicing from God were the out flow of the book in front of him.

 

[py3ak]

Well I am not going to read a biography of Patton to see what his favorite cigar was. The biography might mention his favorite cigar, but the focus of the bio is on his military actions.

I am not going to read a biography of Mickey Mantle to learn what he read in his spare time. I am reading to see what his approach to baseball was.

I am sorry if this seems truncated, but I really do not see a different reason to read biographies.

Also it is not that I am reading a biography to learn what they did at work, but am reading a biography to learn more about what they were known for.

Curiosity about the person doesn't enter into it? I suppose if sports and military biographies are most of the biographical writings you read it might be understandable, but people like Lady Mary Wortley Montagu or Samuel Johnson are interesting for their characters and experiences, as well as for providing something of a window into their own time.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Curiosity about the person doesn't enter into it?

Sure it does, but every bio I have read shows how life experiences or other things shaped a person into the person he is known for.

If I am in the minority, that is fine. Nothing to cry over.

 

[py3ak]

Sure, that's part of it; but the details are also a vital part of it. If they weren't, people wouldn't read biographies - they'd just read encyclopedia articles. I learned a good deal about opera, about the Risorgimento, and about Cavour and Garibaldi reading George Martin's Verdi; but the motivation behind desiring to read it was not to learn about those things, but a desire to be better acquainted with Verdi himself. Perhaps the single most memorable thing from the book was the image of Verdi playing Va pensiero on the piano for his father-in-law while the latter gentleman lay dying.

 

[Pilgrim]

I haven't read the book, although I look forward to it, d.v.

I don't think it's been brought out here, but I'll note that the author, Mack Tomlinson, is a Calvinist. He's probably not a strict 1689er across the board, but he's a 5 pointer and non-dispensational. That's one reason that Washer is endorsing the book--both of them are, broadly speaking, part of what you could call the independent sovereign grace Baptist movement. That's the same circles that Pergamum comes from. Some of the men in those circles are NCT, some are more covenantal. I've had some association with them in the past as well, but it's been a few years. Although the differences in theology are obvious and were not lost on them, many of the men in that movement regarded Ravenhill very highly and saw him as an ally against the superficiality in evangelical churches in the late 20th Century.

The publisher is Free Grace Press which last year published Jeffrey Johnson's "Fatal Flaw of the Theology Behind Infant Baptism."

Let's not be so hard on Boliver. He probably figures he has to read enough non-Reformed books or books about non-Reformed people at DTS as it is and may be overreacting!

 

[J. Dean]

Remember: even Charles Spurgeon had Arminian allies during the Down-Grade Controversy!

Where Ravenhill was biblical in his preaching and teaching, we should give concession to that. That doesn't mean we agree with every single point, but at the same time when Ravenhill or any other Arminian states something that is in line with the Word of God, we need to say "Amen." In Ravenhill's case, so long as he was putting forth holiness as an evidence of salvation and not the cause of it, I have no problem with it. Now, when he starts saying, like Finney, that holiness saves us (and I don't know whether or not he ever did), or when he starts pushing altar calls, then we have serious problems.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Thought this was a good quote by J. Gresham Machen in Christianity and Liberalism. p.35, 36

Another difference of opinion is that between the Calvinistic or Reformed theology and the Arminianism which appears in the Methodist Church. It is difficult to see how any one who has really studied the question can regard that difference as an unimportant matter. On the contrary it touches very closely some of the profoundest things of the Christian faith. A Calvinist is constrained to regard the Arminian theology as a serious impoverishment of the Scripture doctrine of divine grace, and equally serious is the view which the Arminian must hold as to the doctrine of the Reformed Churches. Yet here again, true evangelical fellowship is possible between those who hold, with regard to some exceedingly important matters, sharply opposing views.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Let's not be so hard on Boliver. He probably figures he has to read enough non-Reformed books or books about non-Reformed people at DTS as it is and may be overreacting!

This actually made me giggle.

 

[LeeD]

I don't think it's been brought out here, but I'll note that the author, Mack Tomlinson, is a Calvinist. He's probably not a strict 1689er across the board, but he's a 5 pointer and non-dispensational. That's one reason that Washer is endorsing the book--both of them are, broadly speaking, part of what you could call the independent sovereign grace Baptist movement. That's the same circles that Pergamum comes from. Some of the men in those circles are NCT, some are more covenantal. I've had some association with them in the past as well, but it's been a few years. Although the differences in theology are obvious and were not lost on them, many of the men in that movement regarded Ravenhill very highly and saw him as an ally against the superficiality in evangelical churches in the late 20th Century.

I am not sure how I missed this thread, must have been due to recent traveling. I am a member of Providence Chapel where Mack Tomlinson is an elder. I was also privileged to travel with him to England and Wales in 2010 as he researched the early life of Leonard Ravenhill. I admire Ravenhill due to his passion, prayer life, and the anointed preaching ministry that God gave him. Ravenhill desired to see God glorified, His church energized and edified, and Christians walking in obedience. God gave Him a unique platform that benefited many.

Mack Tomlinson is as Pilgrim described a reformed baptist elder, a Calvinist, and a dear brother. The book which he had labored over for years is edifying, stirring, and a profitable read.

 

[BJClark]

Then let's throw out our Bibles and just pray.

In fact we should all quit our jobs, stop going to church, stop hearing the Word, stop partaking of the sacraments, and spend every waking minute in silent prayer. If a prayer life is the measure of a man, then more prayer must mean a better man.

Should we also stop evangelizing? That would require us to get out of our prayer closet.

[rant on]
I've heard this argument from a few different people, and have noticed they tend to use it more as an excuse not to pray at all or to spend very little time in prayer.

What does Scripture mean to 'pray without ceasing'?

Could a man listen to radio sermons as opposed to say "rock and roll" or "country' music? thus being fed the word of God

I've also heard folks say.."well, I'm not getting PAID to study God's word or pray like the pastor does"

Personally, I want to scream when I hear those things...Your not being paid?? are you being paid to listen to rock and roll? are you being paid to listen to country music? are you being paid to sit on your butt in the evenings and watch TV?? are you being paid to spend time w/ your wife and kids?

Isn't a man caring for his family when he spends time praying and in God's word? Isn't he in essence caring for them by tending to his own spiritual health? and thus theirs as well?

If a man can find the time to listen to secular music during his day then he certainly could replace that time w/ listening to the preaching of Gods word or in prayer..could he not??

I am just sick of hearing that excuse...granted a man may not be able to spend six or eight hours on his knees in prayer (as some pastors years ago) nor would I expect them too (nor do I think most people would) however, they could spend an hour or even half an hour out of their day doing so..that would certainly be better than nothing at all..

And thinking in terms of the Pay, haven't we been paid? Didn't Christ make the payment on the cross?? Isn't the payment of prayer and spending time in God's word getting to know more about God? and having a deeper relationship with Him?? Why must it be about money and financial gain??

Isn't the payment of spending time w/ one's wife and kids a better, deeper and fulfilling relationship??

[/rant off]

 

[FenderPriest]

(i.e. How somebody can quote the Puritans, like Baxter, and Charles Finney on the same page is baffling to me)

There are many reasons that could lead to this. For one thing, Baxter is not a touchstone of sound doctrine on all points.

When someone doesn't have a view of the whole body of doctrine, it's also easy to pull striking statements, even if they are inconsistent with one another. That is a problem, certainly, because at least preachers really ought to have a grasp on the system of doctrine contained in the Scriptures.

Again, people sometimes read for striking statements or forceful remarks, without considering very closely the context or standpoint of the person making the deliverance. Reading that way, you can pull many a quotable statement out of all kinds of people, and some of those statements sound excellent when divorced from their original context (just as many excellent statements can sound horrible taken out of their proper context or divorced from their situation and original standpoint). That can also be a problem.

But eclecticism isn't necessarily bad. There are many good remarks and sharp observations found not only in Christians of various stripes, but even in unbelievers. I have a good quote about eternal life from George Orwell and another from Blaise Pascal: I might quote both of them along with some of our theologians if I had occasion to.

Yes, very true. (Sorry for a belated reply.) It's helpful to keep that way of quoting in mind since it's not how I do things, but I can understand how others would (justified or not). And just to clarify, Baxter certainly isn't the best on some points, but he's just the name that came to mind in terms of puritans quoted by Ravenhill.