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In John 3:5, it would seem that baptism is essential for salvation. I've always been under the impression that if possible, we should baptize, but that it is not necessary. The thief on the cross was not baptized, but was saved.
How do we harmonize these two views?
Where does being Born of Water come from? Any ideas? Can a man be Born of Water and what does that mean? I see presuppositions.
Some like to do gymnastics around the verse and even go so far to attribute the water to the woman's water breaking in child birth.
John 3:5 certainly points to the new heart teaching of Ezekiel 36:25-27. The water and Spirit are symbolic of what God does, not what man does.
Nevertheless baptism is essential as is made clear by the apostolic commission in Matt. 28, Mark 16, and the apostolic practice in the book of Acts. It is essential for visible church communion and so for the ordinary possibility of salvation. We can only leave men who are outside of the ordinary means of grace to the Almighty to do with as He pleases. The thief on the cross was just such a person, and we only know about his conversion because it is described for us in the infallible record of holy writ.
Some like to do gymnastics around the verse and even go so far to attribute the water to the woman's water breaking in child birth.
I saw this elsewhere - kinda a head scratcher.
I agree with all of the above. However if someone can be saved outside of an "essential" means, then does that means (here baptism) become by necessity unessential? Serious question.
I agree with all of the above. However if someone can be saved outside of an "essential" means, then does that means (here baptism) become by necessity unessential? Serious question.
It is only non-essential for eternal salvation. As noted, it remains essential for visible church communion. We would never know the thief on the cross was converted without special revelation. We do not possess special revelation of each and every individual's spiritual condition. The only visible sign that we have is the Lord's ordinance of baptism whereby the individual is engaged to be the Lord's.
In John 3:5, it would seem that baptism is essential for salvation. I've always been under the impression that if possible, we should baptize, but that it is not necessary. The thief on the cross was not baptized, but was saved.
How do we harmonize these two views?
But then I have another question. Since the text reads that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless born of water and Spirit would Kingdom of God then refer to the visible church?
But then I have another question. Since the text reads that no one can enter the Kingdom of God unless born of water and Spirit would Kingdom of God then refer to the visible church?
No; because, as noted above, "water" is as much the work of God as "Spirit." The water is God's sprinkling of the person to make them clean, as is indicated in the Ezekiel reference. This is what baptism signifies, but it is not effected by baptism. Hence "water" cannot refer to baptism as the means of accomplishing this birth. The kingdom of God must therefore refer to the kingdom of grace in its inward, spiritual reality.
(Num 19:9) And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.
(Joh 3:5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(Eze 36:25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
(Eze 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
(Eze 36:27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Just for reference to Tony's post on Numbers 19.
(Num 19:9) And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.
(Joh 3:5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Joh 3:6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
I have a question. Why are the two passages (v. 5 and 6) so closely related and one seems to be an expounding of the other? It just seems that way to me. I see why there are those who think that being born of water is paralleled to being born of flesh.
I do agree that water is meant in a figurative and metaphorical sense to be the grace of God as others have pointed out.
(Eze 36:25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
(Eze 36:26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
(Eze 36:27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
BTW, great proof text for sprinkling over immersion. LOL