The online Christian community driving me MAD!

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ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
Ugh!

I post at several Christian sites and let me tell you it has recently been dring me crazy!:banghead:

I was banned at "Rapture Ready" for telling others that they needed to follow the commandments of Christ if they truely loved Him. That talking about how awesome "Kill Bill" was and saying you would gladly take Jesus with you to see it because He has "seen worse" is not a very good attitude to have.:rant:

Now at freshhope I am getting a hard time from many and being told I don't know the bible because I am taking a stand against female pastors and the movie "Saved".

At The Sanctuary" I am looked at as a Pharisee because I think Christians shouldn't perform Christian rock music on the local bar scene, attend graphic R rated movies, and consider an internet mesage board their Church home!:no:

[b:9c847be3a6]What is going on?![/b:9c847be3a6]

:think: Is their a great falling away going on now? I seem to be encountering two kinds of people.

1) People who think Christian liberty is a liscense to live any way they please and still claim salvation.

2) People who truely desire a life of holiness and want to focus on Christ, His word, and the body as the pursue just that.

There doesn't seem to be anyone in between these ways of thought. I don't want to be angry at something God intends:flaming:
 
I think it's in the nature of the modern Reformed (eek did I just say modern Reformed? Yes I did! Keep reading!) man to get frustrated every once in a while about these things.

However, the comfort is that no matter what happens, [i:c98831cde2][b:c98831cde2]God is still in control![/b:c98831cde2][/i:c98831cde2] We'll never fully know exactly what God's up to, but we can be assured that it is good!

I just read the story of Phinehas in Numbers. He was a priest who ran a javelin through an Israelite and the Moabite he had been immoral/idolatrous with, and God counted it as righteousness and blessed his entire bloodline from that point. Why? Because the priest was zealous for the holiness of God.

I'm not saying "grab your spear, we're having Arminian shish-ka-bob!" I'm simply saying that there can be proper action against people in the church. Our spears are our Bibles. Let's run 'em deep.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by FrozenChosen]
 
keep strong brother and keep speaking the truth. Remember that Jesus told us there would be false believers. It wasn't an idle comment. It's truth. Moreover, Jesus said you would be persecuted for his sake. Take your licks and bless those who persecute you.
 
I actually have a guy now trying to convince me how Spurgeon was wrong in an example I gave him of something he said in regard to worldly Christians!:no:
 
I gave up on debating theology or anything for that matter online...I don't think most sites prepare the participants quite like this one.

Don't get me wrong, I think you can learn some good stuff and learn from other people's mistaken notions....but rarely are they corrected online. It's a free for all where anonymity makes everyone an expert :scholar: ....yes, and I see the irony of saying such on this discussion forum :D
 
[quote:f098be317d][i:f098be317d]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:f098be317d]
Ugh!

I was banned at "Rapture Ready" for telling others that they needed to follow the commandments of Christ if they truely loved Him. That talking about how awesome "Kill Bill" was and saying you would gladly take Jesus with you to see it because He has "seen worse" is not a very good attitude to have.:rant:

Now at freshhope I am getting a hard time from many and being told I don't know the bible because I am taking a stand against female pastors and the movie "Saved".

At The Sanctuary" I am looked at as a Pharisee because I think Christians shouldn't perform Christian rock music on the local bar scene, attend graphic R rated movies, and consider an internet mesage board their Church home!:no:
[/quote:f098be317d]

Banned from "Rapture Ready"? Consider it a badge of honor:thumbup:

I say the same things with other "worldly" Christians but I do not merit the intenstity of responses :deadhorse: that you do.
Well Done
 
Here's the thing.

These are FAR from very deep theologically speaking. Most seem like simple conversations that should be fairly easy to agree to. I have this same problem in my "real" life too.

Let me give you some examples.

Friend: "Hey Adam, wanna go see The Punisher?" (I am a fan of the comic FYI)

Me: Nah, there is some female nudity in it and I doubt it's something Christ would want me to be going to.

Friend: Come on Adam, unless it causes you to stumble you are free to see it!

Me: I understand your thinking, but I would rather concentrate on pure things as Philippians 4:8 tells us.

Friend: Oh, ummm, ok, whatever. (Walks away mumbling about how weird I am, or worse how I think I am better than other Christians or "super spiritual")

I get that allot...and guys I do mean ALOT! When I honestly seek to live in a way that I believe pleases God I get put down. By OTHER CHRISTIANS! I honestly do not run around condemning anyone. I simply state why I am not interested in something and the grumbling starts. It just seems to me that almost every professing Christian I know has little to no desire to grow in the faith. They are too concerned with entertainment.

Don't get me wrong. I watch some TV. Shows like Smallville, Alias (although the 2 main characters unmarried relationship is pushing the boundaries for me currently), and Law and Order SVU. I love Penn State football. I enjoy the NFL season. But more than anything I wish to grow in the knowledge of God's word and as such in His grace. Everyone I know thinks I am either loony, or "works based".

When my boss comes to visit me at work, I want to talk about the word! When my friends come and visit I want to get the bible out and talk. When I go to a Christian board I want to discuss ways to walk closer to the Lord!

I am so thankful that I found this place. You all honestly have no idea how refreshing it has been to me. I am just RECENTLY dealing with dispensational beliefs I have held all my life! And you know what has be considering abandoning all of them? You alls ZEAL for the Lord and His word! IT just "seems" to me that Arminianism and dispensational believers have little to no zeal for personal holiness. I am sorry if that is a stereotype of some sort but it SEEMS (to me) to be true.
 
BTW!

Anyone who visits any other forums that are SOUND, could you U2 me or e-mail the addresses at [email protected]?

I love this place and all but I like to visit a lot of boards! I am about ready to leave the ones I just talked about.
 
[quote:0977d570cf][i:0977d570cf]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:0977d570cf]
BTW!

Anyone who visits any other forums that are SOUND, could you U2 me or e-mail the addresses at [email protected]?

I love this place and all but I like to visit a lot of boards! I am about ready to leave the ones I just talked about. [/quote:0977d570cf]



I have a hard enough time trying to keep up with this posts on this board... I couldn't imagine trying to throw another one in the works!!

you are truly amazing.... in an earthly, sinful, fallen man sort of way... hehehe
 
I just need another SOUND board to go to! Now at the "Sanctuary" I am being confronted as if I practice the Colossian heresy because I am speaking of Holy living!:banghead:
 
Ask them if they believe you can be a "carnal Christian" and if they say yes, ask them who they got that teaching from and if they mention Watchman Nee or Jessie Penn-Lewis or Lewis Sperry Chafer - you've got 'em dead to rights on the Colossian heresy! I don't think you're talking "higher-life" spirituality, which is a kind of perfectionism - I think you're just choosing what media to watch and wanting to know more of Christ - but a lot of that stuff has gone around and the evangelifish have ingested a good deal of it, hence the myth of the "carnal" Christian vs. the "spiritual" Christian.

I've also found that a lot of recovering evangelifish in the Reformed tradition seem to need to go to bad movies and consume a lot more alcohol and nicotine than is good for anyone just to prove that they have liberty. Hopefully, the worst they'll get from it is a hangover.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by turmeric]
 
[quote:8df650ae61]I've also found that a lot of recovering evangelifish in the Reformed tradition seem to need to go to bad movies and consume a lot more alcohol and nicotine than is good for anyone [b:8df650ae61]just to prove that they have liberty.[/b:8df650ae61] Hopefully, the worst they'll get from it is a hangover. [/quote:8df650ae61]

[b:8df650ae61]YES!!![/b:8df650ae61]

THis has been my experience to a tee!
 
Oh, and if I ask about "carnal" Christians they are going to pull out that passage where Paul calls some "carnal" and use that to defend that idea.

1 Corinthians 3

1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;

I KNOW this isn't confirming carnal Christians, but they will inisist it is.:no:
 
[quote:8f2fa92df9][i:8f2fa92df9]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:8f2fa92df9]
[quote:8f2fa92df9]I've also found that a lot of recovering evangelifish in the Reformed tradition seem to need to go to bad movies and consume a lot more alcohol and nicotine than is good for anyone [b:8f2fa92df9]just to prove that they have liberty.[/b:8f2fa92df9] Hopefully, the worst they'll get from it is a hangover. [/quote:8f2fa92df9]

[b:8f2fa92df9]YES!!![/b:8f2fa92df9]

THis has been my experience to a tee! [/quote:8f2fa92df9]

What is even more disheartening is being branded a legalist from the so-called "Christian liberty" advocates, when I tell them that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and that we should maintain it spiritually as well as physically, by abstaining from smoking which destroys the lungs and drinking which destroys the liver.

Let's see how many disagreements from even members on this board will come from that statement.

Christian liberty doesn't give you a license to do whatever you want with your body, because you are not your own any more, you are bought with a price, the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Therefore we are to glorify Him in our mortal bodies.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
 
[quote:979347d17d][i:979347d17d]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:979347d17d]
[quote:979347d17d][i:979347d17d]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:979347d17d]
[quote:979347d17d]I've also found that a lot of recovering evangelifish in the Reformed tradition seem to need to go to bad movies and consume a lot more alcohol and nicotine than is good for anyone [b:979347d17d]just to prove that they have liberty.[/b:979347d17d] Hopefully, the worst they'll get from it is a hangover. [/quote:979347d17d]

[b:979347d17d]YES!!![/b:979347d17d]

THis has been my experience to a tee! [/quote:979347d17d]

What is even more disheartening is being branded a legalist from the so-called "Christian liberty" advocates, when I tell them that our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit and that we should maintain it spiritually as well as physically, by abstaining from smoking which destroys the lungs and drinking which destroys the liver.

Let's see how many disagreements from even members on this board will come from that statement.

Christian liberty doesn't give you a license to do whatever you want with your body, because you are not your own any more, you are bought with a price, the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Therefore we are to glorify Him in our mortal bodies.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever] [/quote:979347d17d]

[b:979347d17d]AMEN![/b:979347d17d]
 
[quote:a78c836f46][i:a78c836f46]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:a78c836f46]
by abstaining from smoking which destroys the lungs and [b:a78c836f46]drinking which destroys the liver. [/b:a78c836f46]

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever] [/quote:a78c836f46]

Are you contending that our Savior was less than perfect in drinking wine?
 
[quote:0ced77bc98][i:0ced77bc98]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:0ced77bc98]
Here we go... [/quote:0ced77bc98]

Adam,

I told you so.

I am sure Jesus was well acquainted with the Book of Proverbs.

(Prov. 20:1)
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

(Prov. 23:31-33)
"[31] Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. [32] At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. [33] Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

Anyway the subject of alcohol has been exhaustively discussed a couple of weeks ago on another thread. However the conclusions seems to have been based on human reasoning and not on the authority of scripture.

Alcohol is a mind altering drug, no matter how you put it. That is why it is addictive and very difficult to quit the habit without the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus would not have contaminated his brain with such drugs and it is grevious to claim that he could have.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
 
Oh come on Brent!

Surely you could see Jesus coming over to your house for the Super bowl and cracking open a Bud as he kicked back to watch right?:wink:
 
Brent, what shall we then say of Numbers 28:7 and Proverbs 31:6? And don't come to me trying to use all the verses in the OT that instruct specific people not to drink of wine or strong drink, because they are specific to their situations, and are not meant to be taken as universal commands--the same way the command for Israel not to eat pork, or John the Baptist to eat only lucusts and honey.

You say, "Jesus would not have contaminated his brain with such drugs and it is grevious to claim that he could have." I assume you're of the mindset that the "fruit of the vine" spoken of in the NT was non-alcoholic. That is simply historical ignorance on your part. They didn't even have a way to [i:e1c4c7ca3a]keep[/i:e1c4c7ca3a] grape juice unfermented for any significant amount of time!

Furthermore, if alcohol or tobacco in moderation are sinful because they pose health risks to your liver and lungs, then so are fast food and potato chips, since they clog your arteries and pose health risks to your heart. Is gluttony a sin? Yes - the same way drunkenness and addictive use of tobacco (and I would add cigarettes, since they have hundreds of harmful chemicals, and are specifically made to be addictive) are sinful. However, if moderate use of these things are sinful because of the potential health risks they pose, then we best all go back to the OT kosher diet as well.

Also, Brent, I simply posted this here so there would be an answer in the same thread to what you already posted about alcohol being sinful. If you want to keep discussing it beyond here, please either do so in the thread you mentioned, or start a thread of your own for discussing it as you see fit.

In Christ,
 
[quote:3a8451691f][i:3a8451691f]Originally posted by Me Died Blue[/i:3a8451691f]
You say, "Jesus would not have contaminated his brain with such drugs and it is grevious to claim that he could have." I assume you're of the mindset that the "fruit of the vine" spoken of in the NT was non-alcoholic. That is simply historical ignorance on your part. They didn't even have a way to [i:3a8451691f]keep[/i:3a8451691f] grape juice unfermented for any significant amount of time!
[/quote:3a8451691f]

How much time are we talking about here, a few hours, days, weeks or what?

Isn't is possible that the fruit of the vine could have been prepared just a few hours before the supper and was still fresh?

Gluttony is a sin, however willfully and knowingly consuming any harmful chemicals into your body that destroys the body God gave you is sin.

Adam, is this the same kind of flak you are getting on these other sites?
 
[quote:92498f5dcd][i:92498f5dcd]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:92498f5dcd]
How much time are we talking about here, a few hours, days, weeks or what?

Isn't is possible that the fruit of the vine could have been prepared just a few hours before the supper and was still fresh?[/quote:92498f5dcd]

Yes, that would have been [i:92498f5dcd]possible[/i:92498f5dcd], but that is not the point. It is historical that alcoholic wine was used during that era. All I can say is pick up a secular history book about it...

[quote:92498f5dcd][i:92498f5dcd]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:92498f5dcd]
Gluttony is a sin, however willfully and knowingly consuming any harmful chemicals into your body that destroys the body God gave you is sin.[/quote:92498f5dcd]

Then don't ever eat fast food or saturated fat again, since you are clogging your arteries and causing long-term damage to your heart. And you had better stay away from sugar, too, since consumption of it over your life can potentially lead to diabetes in your latter years.

[quote:92498f5dcd][i:92498f5dcd]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:92498f5dcd]
Adam, is this the same kind of flak you are getting on these other sites? [/quote:92498f5dcd]

I'm sorry if you consider any knid of debate "flak." I simply don't agree with your position here, and since we're here to seek truth, we're going to challenge things we see as falsehood. Disagreement and challenging of views needn't be received as "flak" or as offensive in any way, because that is not what I or anyone else on thsi board mean it as.

This is my last post on the topic of alcohol in this thread. I'd be happy to discuss it with you via U2U, e-mail, or another thread.

[b:92498f5dcd]To get back to the thread topic,[/b:92498f5dcd] one Christian group I joined awhile back (I can't even remember the name anymore) was webmastered by a man named John Henry. He had an article on there that said, "I disagree with Calvinism. Period!" In his attempted refutation of each of the "five points" in that article, he said that he disagrees with the "P" in TULIP, because, and I quote, "The Bible does not teach perseverance, it teaches preservation!" I've never seen as grave and vile a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of Calvinism in my life! And when I posted a thread to discuss it, my thread never even got a single reply after a month! That's when I left.

In Christ,
 
[quote:c1d1f3dc04][i:c1d1f3dc04]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:c1d1f3dc04]
[
Adam, is this the same kind of flak you are getting on these other sites? [/quote:c1d1f3dc04]

It shouldn't be the same kind of flak. No one here is calling the other a legalist or ______ (fill in the blank). Me Died Blue probably shouldn't have accused you of historical ignorance. I probably would have said "factually inaccurate." Anyway, I think the theological arguements at the Westminster Assembly were more heated than this. And I do not think this in theological hairsplitting. The biblical extent of Christian Liberty is an important subject to discuss.
 
[quote:46d0221ab5][i:46d0221ab5]Originally posted by Finn McCool[/i:46d0221ab5]
Me Died Blue probably shouldn't have accused you of historical ignorance. I probably would have said "factually inaccurate."[/quote:46d0221ab5]

Thanks for pointing that out, Jacob. Brent, I'm sorry if my using the term "historical ignorance" left the impression that I was accusing you of being historically ignorant [i:46d0221ab5]in general[/i:46d0221ab5]. That's not what I meant. I was simply saying that your specific claim about alcoholic wine in this case was one instance of historical ignorance...or factual inaccuracy. I mean the same thing by both terms, so sorry if my use of the former caused any misunderstanding.

In Christ,
 
[quote:d17a292a4c][i:d17a292a4c]Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever[/i:d17a292a4c]
[quote:d17a292a4c][i:d17a292a4c]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:d17a292a4c]
Here we go... [/quote:d17a292a4c]

Adam,

I told you so.

I am sure Jesus was well acquainted with the Book of Proverbs.

(Prov. 20:1)
"Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

(Prov. 23:31-33)
"[31] Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. [32] At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. [33] Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things."

Anyway the subject of alcohol has been exhaustively discussed a couple of weeks ago on another thread. However the conclusions seems to have been based on human reasoning and not on the authority of scripture.

Alcohol is a mind altering drug, no matter how you put it. That is why it is addictive and very difficult to quit the habit without the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus would not have contaminated his brain with such drugs and it is grevious to claim that he could have.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever] [/quote:d17a292a4c]

No offense, but no reasonable Bible Scholar contends that Jesus did not drink wine. The whole idea didn't even come about until the 18th century or so.

[quote:d17a292a4c]Luke 7:33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, "He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, "Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' 35But wisdom is justified by all her children." [/quote:d17a292a4c]

What do you think Jesus was drinking here to be called a drunkard? It wasn't diet coke.
 
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