The Promise of the 5th

[Wannabee]

Ephesians 6:1-3
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2“Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3“that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”


Is the promise of the fifth commandment proverbial?
Can we take the promise of the fifth commandment literally? If so, how?

 

[PresbyDane]

 

[he beholds]

This is actually something I've heard used as an argument that this was for Israel only, since it was tied to the land, which only Israel was promised. But if it says "earth" that is a little different. What translation was that?

 

[steven-nemes]

It is conceivable that a person be kind and respectful to their parents, and not live a long and prosperous time on Earth, like imagine he was a young child living in modern Mexico in a poor village where he catches the swine flu and dies. I think it is not a literal promise.

 

[OPC'n]

Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 "Honor your father and mother" (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3"that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land."

Yep, I think it still applies to us literally.

 

[Wannabee]

What translation was that?

NKJV

I think it is not a literal promise.

Then it what way could we apply the promise?



Sarah, does experience back this up? Do those who honor their parents necessarily live long?



I'm getting ready to preach on this verse and am wondering what folks think of this.

 

[he beholds]

What translation was that?

NKJV

I think it is not a literal promise.

Then it what way could we apply the promise?



Sarah, does experience back this up? Do those who honor their parents necessarily live long?



I'm getting ready to preach on this verse and am wondering what folks think of this.

That's why I think this could have been just for Israelites. Their obedience to all of the law was connected to the land, right? The promised land, not just life on earth.

 

[Wannabee]

But the quote Paul is reiterating is in Ephesians. Are you saying that the "quote" of the promise was only for ethnic Israel? If so, how does this affect Paul's statement about the promise here in Ephesians? Why would he bother?

 

[OPC'n]

What translation was that?

NKJV

I think it is not a literal promise.

Then it what way could we apply the promise?



Sarah, does experience back this up? Do those who honor their parents necessarily live long?



I'm getting ready to preach on this verse and am wondering what folks think of this.

I don't believe it is guarantee to each individual...life shows us that. But I believe that it is true in general. Obeying your parents and staying out of crime will give you a better chance at a longer life. That doesn't mean that a child won't get cancer for example. But as a rule for the general audience I believe it applies.

 

[Wannabee]

So, you're saying that you think it's proverbial, correct?

 

[OPC'n]

No, I think it is literal. In the medical field we say that the average life span is around 75 years. That's talking about the general public not my grandfather who died at 62 years.

-----Added 4/30/2009 at 08:10:59 EST-----

God didn't promise each and every person who obeys long life. He promised this to the general audience that they would....some wouldn't get that promise but most did.

 

[Wannabee]

Is it possible that you're confusing a parable with a proverb?

Proverbs are general principles. That's why we can't claim every proverb in Proverbs as a promise. Thus, if God promises the general audience that something will happen if they do something, then that's a general principle and, thus, proverbial. Make sense?

 

[he beholds]

But the quote Paul is reiterating is in Ephesians. Are you saying that the "quote" of the promise was only for ethnic Israel? If so, how does this affect Paul's statement about the promise here in Ephesians? Why would he bother?

Yeah. Good question...

 

[OPC'n]

No, I know what you mean, but Proverbs are not stated as promises just truths or guidelines etc. This is a promise in the TC and in the NT.

 

[OPC'n]

Joe,
I think if you take your approach (proverbial), then everything except God and the salvific process would be proverbial.

 

[Wannabee]

I didn't say I thought it was proverbial. I tried to clarify what you thought. How does this compare to "Train your children in the admonition of the Lord and when they're old they will not depart from it"?

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Here's the WLC on the subject:

Question 133: What is the reason annexed to the fifth commandment, the more to enforce it?
Answer: The reason annexed to the fifth commandment, in these words, That thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God gives thee, is an express promise of long life and prosperity, as far as it shall serve for God’s glory and their own good, to all such as keep this commandment.​

Paul may have "universalized" the promise, since the "land" is no longer a place of unique status. The whole earth is Christ's Dominion.

Rebellion is, ordinarily, a fast trip to a short life. If you will not be ruled by any authority, then you will be forever contending for the position of top lion of whatever serengeti you inhabit. The law of the jungle is harsh. But there is authority that is not so harsh as to shorten life, but lengthens it. The balance of Liberty.

I guess I would deny that the promise is simply proverbial. It isn't absolute, but it does grant that living within God's gracious bounds is a path of life. And ultimately it is life that never ends.

 

[OPC'n]

I didn't say I thought it was proverbial. I tried to clarify what you thought. How does this compare to "Train your children in the admonition of the Lord and when they're old they will not depart from it"?

Oh, sorry! No, I wasn't trying to express proverbial thought

 

[Wannabee]

Here's the WLC on the subject:

Question 133: What is the reason annexed to the fifth commandment, the more to enforce it?
Answer: The reason annexed to the fifth commandment, in these words, That thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God gives thee, is an express promise of long life and prosperity, as far as it shall serve for God’s glory and their own good, to all such as keep this commandment.​

Paul may have "universalized" the promise, since the "land" is no longer a place of unique status. The whole earth is Christ's Dominion.

Rebellion is, ordinarily, a fast trip to a short life. If you will not be ruled by any authority, then you will be forever contending for the position of top lion of whatever serengeti you inhabit. The law of the jungle is harsh. But there is authority that is not so harsh as to shorten life, but lengthens it. The balance of Liberty.

I guess I would deny that the promise is simply proverbial. It isn't absolute, but it does grant that living within God's gracious bounds is a path of life. And ultimately it is life that never ends.

Thanks Bruce. I understand where you're coming from. My question (Why?) remains. Can you explain that exegetically?