The 'rapture'

[js6426]

I've been looking around on the internet but haven't found a ton on this. I know that a pretrib rapture would be put in chapter 4, but where in Revelation would people place a mid trib (I assume chapter 11), 'pre-wrath rapture), and post trib rapture? Most stuff I found talked a ton about other books, but not really anything on Revelation itself.

Thanks for any help, books or articles you can't point me to.

Jonny

 

[johnny]

Hi Jonny

Are you refering to a secret rapture?

If you are then this is an invention of a dispensational hermeneutic.
When Christ returns it will be with a shout, loud trumpets, and the voice of an Archangel.
We can also expect persecution while we live in this world,
The dispensational rapture view does not make sense, and is not a Biblical position.
There would be very few people on puritanboard who ascribe to it, (hopefully none)

 

[johnny]

I may have misunderstood your question because I just read that you are Amill...
Eschatology is tricky at the best of times, so I will leave this for other wiser PB'ers to jump in.
I'm sorry if I misrepresented you,

 

[Stephen L Smith]

John, Australians do have a real reputation for enjoying eschatology. That's because when they play the All Blacks they get "left behind"

 

[js6426]

No problem Johnny! Yes I am amil, I am just interested as to the various places that people insert the rapture of the church in the book of Revelation (none of which I agree with)! Also, great joke Stephen hah! Can't beat a good bit of Australian/New Zealand rugby tension!

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Hi Jonny (welcome to PB!),

You may find these sections from Davis' High King of Heaven edifying, here (scroll down just a bit for Davis) and here.

 

[js6426]

Thanks Steve, I will check those out

 

[jambo]

John, Australians do have a real reputation for enjoying eschatology. That's because when they play the All Blacks they get "left behind"

 

[Pilgrim]

According to a volume that I shall not name on the grounds that it may incriminate me,

Some proponents find their support for [midtribulationism] in Revelation 11:11-15; others find it in Revelation 14:1. This view agrees with the pretribulation view teaching that God removes the church before pouring out His wrath. Midtribulationists and pretribulationists disagree over the timing of the rapture, the distinction between the wrath of God and man's wrath against man, and the issue of an imminent (at any moment) rapture of the church.

Perhaps this article by a mid-tribber may be of some help with regard to what they believe: http://www.nobts.edu/faculty/itor/lemkesw/personal/midtribulationism.html

This is really not a very common view anymore and I don't know that it ever was. Dr. Lemke's article advocating it is probably the only one I've come across in years. The only authors I can think of offhand are Norman Harrison, J. Oliver Buswell and Gleason Archer. Archer's work may be the only one still in print (in the first 3 views book.) Proponents of the pre-wrath view would probably argue that Dr. Lemke is in error with including the pre-wrather Marv Rosenthal in the mid-trib camp. I am not that familiar with all of the nuances, but most pre-wrathers seem to get upset when they are equated with mid-trib. Despite some similarities in a general sense, (which causes some to consider it to be a variant) I think pre-wrathers differ on the question of timing. Regardless, pre-wrath is more commonly held today. This is seen with the substitution of the pre-wrath view for midtrib in the latest 3 views on the rapture volume that was published a few years ago.

Posttrib sees the rapture and the Second Coming as basically being the same event. In contrast to Pretrib, Midtrib, Posttrib and Prewrath all generally deny imminency.

 

[reaganmarsh]

Ah, yes, Steve Lemke...the man whose enraged rants against Calvinism inspired me to investigate it and to transfer seminaries.

Sorry, that was off-topic. Okay, as you were.