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Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Bill,
Look this thread over as well as the Eschatology section:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=13513
Interesting observation.Originally posted by webmaster
Covenant Theology holds behind it a "theology" of hope. It surrounds eschatological ideas whether one is Post- or A-.
Your eschatology, though is a consequence of your theological position. So CT or Dispensationalism is where one "starts" and then comes to their eschatological conclusion concerning the end.
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
No longer dispensational, but not an adherent of covenant theology. Where does that put a person? Is there a middle position? Is it necessary to be one or the other? How many have abandoned dispensationalism but have not become a covenant theologian?
Originally posted by Dan....
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
No longer dispensational, but not an adherent of covenant theology. Where does that put a person? Is there a middle position? Is it necessary to be one or the other? How many have abandoned dispensationalism but have not become a covenant theologian?
I think this might be along the lines of what you are looking for:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=443
Originally posted by webmaster
Covenant Theology holds behind it a "theology" of hope. It surrounds eschatological ideas whether one is Post- or A-.
Your eschatology, though is a consequence of your theological position. So CT or Dispensationalism is where one "starts" and then comes to their eschatological conclusion concerning the end.
Eschatologically, I'm amil, kind of by default. Early on in my walk, I saw that dispensationalism didn't make sense to me. Shortly after coming to this realization, I attended a Bible study where the guy taught from the amil perspective. Against the backdrop of dispensationalism, amil made perfect sense to me and it kind of stuck. I'm sure, if I took the time to study them, some of the other camps (post-mil, partial preterism, historic premillennial, etc) would also make sense too against the backdrop of dispensationalism.Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
So for the Baptists in here, where are you theologically? Hopefully no one is dispensational. What do you guys believe?
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
. . .
So I ask myself a question: "Have I been pre-trib/pre-mil because I was a dispensationalist, or did my pre-trib/pre-mil position make me a dispensationalist?" Since I no longer believe in a rapture, does that automatically take me out of the dispensational system? If that is true, does the absence of a rapture view automatically put me in the CT or NCT camps, or is it possible to be in the middle somewhere? A theological man without a country?
I actually do not feel pressed to place myself in a camp just for the sake of doing so. I must be intellectually honest and tell you that I am compelled to investigate CT and NCT to a degree I would not have done in the past. I am probably skirting close to the line (if I haven't already crossed it) as an elder in my church. Our doctrinal statement says nothing about holding a pre-trib or pre-mil position, although the majority of our church is pre-trib and pre-mil. I suppose I need to be honest and inform the eldership of where I am in my theological journey. But I digress....
So for the Baptists in here, where are you theologically? Hopefully no one is dispensational. What do you guys believe?
Originally posted by victorbravo
Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis
. . .
So I ask myself a question: "Have I been pre-trib/pre-mil because I was a dispensationalist, or did my pre-trib/pre-mil position make me a dispensationalist?" Since I no longer believe in a rapture, does that automatically take me out of the dispensational system? If that is true, does the absence of a rapture view automatically put me in the CT or NCT camps, or is it possible to be in the middle somewhere? A theological man without a country?
I actually do not feel pressed to place myself in a camp just for the sake of doing so. I must be intellectually honest and tell you that I am compelled to investigate CT and NCT to a degree I would not have done in the past. I am probably skirting close to the line (if I haven't already crossed it) as an elder in my church. Our doctrinal statement says nothing about holding a pre-trib or pre-mil position, although the majority of our church is pre-trib and pre-mil. I suppose I need to be honest and inform the eldership of where I am in my theological journey. But I digress....
So for the Baptists in here, where are you theologically? Hopefully no one is dispensational. What do you guys believe?
Bill, I'm a Baptist and I hold to covenant theology. As for eschatology, I tend to a post-millenial view, but I waiver from time to time. I don't spend a great deal of time working on that in my thinking.
But I think it is a mistake to confine the rapture to the dispensational view. After all, the word comes from the Latin word "rapere" (which means to be "caught up") which was the Vulgate's translation of 1 Thes 4:17. I say with confidence that I believe in the rapture because Paul plainly teaches it.
The problem is not, then, with a rapture, but with a "secret rapture". That is where the dispensationalists first go wrong.
Vic
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery;we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Originally posted by victorbravo
My rendering might be disputed by others, and there are, of course, many nuances and questions. My only point here is that one's view of the sequence of the end times does not necessarily keep you from holding to covenant theology.
I think a Calvinistic Premil is the most disingenuous os all eschatological position, this is supposing that there are other disingenuous eschatological positions which I doubt.Originally posted by victorbravo
Calvinistic premils who all hold to covenant theology and deny that there are separate forms of salvation.
Vic
Originally posted by Slippery
I think a Calvinistic Premil is the most disingenuous os all eschatological position, this is supposing that there are other disingenuous eschatological positions which I doubt.
What the Progressive Dispensationalists and the Calvinistic Premills have done, is they have assumed that the Premill doctrine is the correct one, and they simply purged out the elements of it that contradicts Covenant theology.
That's like a waiter upon realizing that he had meat in a food that was for a vegetarian, simply taking out the meat and serving the vegetarian.
In the pure legalistic notion of a vegetarian not eating meat, he has succeeded, but the dish is by a long shot far from being vegetarian.