The soul and God's image

[timfost]

Is it proper to say that it was the soul of man particularly that was created in the image of God?

1. The creation of man was in two parts: a) God created his body from the dust and b) God breathed life into him (Gen. 2:7). This made man different from all the animals.

2. Since God is Spirit (1 John 4:24), it could not be the body that was created in His image.

I'm preparing a study on the SDA church, and am considering the consequences of their denial of the two parts of man, since they believe the soul dies with the body.

Thanks!

 

[yeutter]

Ephesians 4:24 "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

The natural man is not righteous and does not possess true holiness. That was lost in the fall.

The natural man does retain a rational aspect, an emotional aspect and a will. These were tainted in that they do not seek to glorify God; but they were not destroyed in the fall

 

[earl40]

The SDA do not teach that the soul dies but that it it so interwoven with the body that it sleeps with the body in the grave till The Resurrection. If you ask them where Jesus was when He died they will say "in the tomb" and if you press them a little and they acknowledge that Jesus is God you can ask once again where was Jesus when He died. This will challenge them to look into the two natures of Jesus closer, which is a good thing that all Christians should have in mind when they think of Our Lord. Also what one can do is look into Who raised the body of Jesus from the grave. Scripture says all three Persons of The Trinity were involved. The reason why this is important is that it is impossible to raise your own body if you are asleep as the SDA teach Jesus was asleep in the grave between The Cross and The Resurrection.

 

[timfost]

The SDA do not teach that the soul dies but that it it so interwoven with the body that it sleeps with the body in the grave till The Resurrection. If you ask them where Jesus was when He died they will say "in the tomb" and if you press them a little and they acknowledge that Jesus is God you can ask once again where was Jesus when He died.

I think the SDAs actually go further than "soul sleep" (psychopannychia). I've been speaking with an SDA pastor about this and he sent the following to me:

God said, through the prophet, "Behold, all souls are mine: as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4. This firmly establishes that the soul is definitely not immortal by nature, or it could not experience death. Since the word "immortal" means "not subject to death," there could be no question of death for a soul possessing an innate immortality. At least ten other verses affirm exactly the same thing: the soul is not naturally immortal.

Jesus, the great Master Teacher, declared that the soul could die, in Matthew 10:28. "And fear not them which kill the body... but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." By this clear statement, Christ places the matter beyond all question. The soul can die and will die in the fires of hell. Therefore, it cannot be immortal by nature. This is shocking to a lot of people. The traditional position has been exactly the opposite of this. How upsetting it is to learn that in all the 1700 biblical occurrences of the words "soul" and "spirit" not once are they referred to as being immortal or undying.

In other words, they believe that a person ceases to exist after death until the resurrection. I think this is slightly different than the soul simply sleeping. I could be wrong on that, though.

This will challenge them to look into the two natures of Jesus closer, which is a good thing that all Christians should have in mind when they think of Our Lord. Also what one can do is look into Who raised the body of Jesus from the grave. Scripture says all three Persons of The Trinity were involved. The reason why this is important is that it is impossible to raise your own body if you are asleep as the SDA teach Jesus was asleep in the grave between The Cross and The Resurrection.

Earl, that's an excellent point. I asked him if Christ ceased to exist in the grave. It was at this point that I brought up Christ's two natures. He was shocked by this since he never heard that Christ had two natures. He asked for reading, so I sent him the 3FU as the Belgic especially deals with this clearly.

 

[RamistThomist]

If you could provide counterfactuals of the soul's surviving after death, wouldn't that refute the SDA?

Revelation 6:9-11 is a fairly clear refutation.

 

[RamistThomist]

Is it proper to say that it was the soul of man particularly that was created in the image of God?

It's the easiest way to define imago dei, though I don't think it is completely accurate (though I would hold to something like it).

 

[timfost]

If you could provide counterfactuals of the soul's surviving after death, wouldn't that refute the SDA?

Revelation 6:9-11 is a fairly clear refutation.

In theory Rev. 6:9-11 would refute their doctrine, but unfortunately they depend so heavily on the writings of Ellen White that sound scriptural arguments don't seem to phase them. As much as they want to believe that scripture is the ultimate authority, practically speaking it is White's prophesies.

My heart goes out to them as I know that if they would do away with their prophetess Christ would shine ever brighter.

 

[timfost]

Also, since their eschatology is so crazy (e.g. investigative judgment), dealing with the book of Revelation in general tends to open a much bigger can of worms than is feasible to tackle in a conversation.

 

[RamistThomist]

If you could provide counterfactuals of the soul's surviving after death, wouldn't that refute the SDA?

Revelation 6:9-11 is a fairly clear refutation.

In theory Rev. 6:9-11 would refute their doctrine, but unfortunately they depend so heavily on the writings of Ellen White that sound scriptural arguments don't seem to phase them. As much as they want to believe that scripture is the ultimate authority, practically speaking it is White's prophesies.

My heart goes out to them as I know that if they would do away with their prophetess Christ would shine ever brighter.

If that's the case then Bible verses may not refute them. I would focus on the philosophical underpinnings of their anthropology. Press substance dualism, doctrine of the soul, the mind, etc. I have some great JP Moreland talks on this that would help. Email/PM me if you are interested.

 

[Peairtach]

Is it proper to say that it was the soul of man particularly that was created in the image of God?

1. The creation of man was in two parts: a) God created his body from the dust and b) God breathed life into him (Gen. 2:7). This made man different from all the animals.

2. Since God is Spirit (1 John 4:24), it could not be the body that was created in His image.

I'm preparing a study on the SDA church, and am considering the consequences of their denial of the two parts of man, since they believe the soul dies with the body.

Thanks!

The soul of unfallen man was created in righteousness and holiness to reflect God's righteous and holy nature. But a perusal of the doctrine of the image of God in Reformed systematic theologies will show that that is not the only way in which Man was made in the image and likeness of God. One way is in his original dominion over the creation, and his body -given to him by God - was/is a suitable "vehicle" for one made in God's image and likeness. Notice that although that image in soul and body is terribly marred by the Fall, Man is still said by God's Word to be made in God's image - e.g. Genesis 9:6.

An image or likeness "shows forth" something; also Man consists of both soul and body. So I would say that there is some sense in which God is imaged in both soul and body, ultimately now in Christ.

This incidentally is "why" there was no image of God in the Temple. Only unfallen Man should have been the image of God, and Christ was going to image God in both soul and body.

We - in Christ - begin again to image forth God as His law is written on our hearts and we seek to obey Him.

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