The Struggle with the Super Bowl

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CalvinandHodges

Puritan Board Junior
Hi:

To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.

On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.

Blessings,

Rob
 

fredtgreco

Vanilla Westminsterian
Staff member
Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?
why wouldn't it be?
I am sure almost all of us eat at the same restaurants during the week that we refrain from on the Lord's Day. I see this as the same thing. I've never watched a videoed game, but I usually watch Monday Night Football.
 

Tripel

Puritan Board Senior
Hi:

To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year.
I'm a little confused by your phrasing. Are you just wanting to hear from people who are indifferent? I would very much like to watch the Super Bowl, so I'm not exactly indifferent. I DO think it is a matter of Christian Liberty.
Your challenge is noted, but I will not be taking you up on it.

Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.
On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.
I will be going to our evening service, but then watching the game when I get home while eating really unhealthy food.
How much my soul profits or how much I honor Christ on that day is not dependent on whether I watch the Super Bowl or not. I have every expectation that it will be a soul-profiting day.
 

he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
Hi:

To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.

On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.

Blessings,

Rob
That is not what it means to have liberty. Liberty is not just "either way doesn't matter, so don't." That would actually be choosing law over liberty, if we indeed have that liberty. If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god.

I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?
why wouldn't it be?
I am sure almost all of us eat at the same restaurants during the week that we refrain from on the Lord's Day. I see this as the same thing. I've never watched a videoed game, but I usually watch Monday Night Football.
Well, to make your scenario more apt, it'd be like eating a meal at a restaurant on Monday that you knew for certain it took the cook Sunday to prepare it.
I think a video-taped watching of the game at least goes as far as allowing YOU to not use Sunday for entertainment and you didn't force anyone to do the entertaining on a Sunday. But I don't know, really, if the OT Jews would have gone for that.
 

au5t1n

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I began trying to be more careful to observe the Lord's day (albeit poorly) many months before I became convinced it was necessary, and found it very profitable for my soul, so the challenge is not without merit, in my opinion. It is probably more suited for those who are on the fence about it, rather than those who are firmly convinced that it is totally permissible. For fence-sitters, it sort of makes sense to "play it safe," and after all, doing the things Rob suggests is easily more profitable than watching a game on any day of the week, and especially the day set aside to focus on the worship of God.
 

he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.
Respectfully, aren't you making assumptions about his intent and thoughts of the heart?
I don't see how I can be, but sure, why not.
 

InSlaveryToChrist

Puritan Board Junior
“Don't ask, ‘Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?’ Instead ask, ‘Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?’” - John Piper
 

InSlaveryToChrist

Puritan Board Junior
“Don't ask, ‘Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?’ Instead ask, ‘Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?’” - John Piper
love the quote!
The quote is taken from the following article:

I Will Not Be Enslaved by Anything - Desiring God

Not to make this a tribute to Piper, but I must say that after reading this text by Piper I finally understood what "Christian freedom" truly meant. Really good stuff!
 

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.
 

KMK

Administrator
Staff member
A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.
Not on the West coast! The 'game' will be over by the time evening service ends.


I, for one, am going to take Rob up on his challenge. As a recovering idol worshipper of the NFL, I encourage Christians to consider whether or not they are causing young men to stumble by putting their stamp of approval on Sunday football in general, and the Super Bowl in particular. What kind of message are we sending when we have Super Bowl parties at churches? Why not have a party every NFL Sunday?
 

John Lanier

Puritan Board Junior
A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.
I think it would be acceptable if such was the case. However, there are more reasons than the Sabbath issue that I don't watch NFL. If this was the case, then such a person could watch the Super Bowl without violating the Sabbath but would then be unable to watch Saturday night UGA games.
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
If I don't my conscience would bear witness to me that I would not be not watching for a reason that forbids me to do so. Also I am looking forward to the fellowship of 2 of my sons while we watch the game we planed on watching.
 

kvanlaan

Puritan Board Doctor
If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god.
But the question is, do you believe it is your liberty, or do you really want to watch it, and so you file it under 'Liberty, Christian'?
 

Edward

Puritanboard Commissioner
To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day
Just a warning - I've gotten flamed on here for just saying that I tried to refrain from watching football on the Lord's Day - and I wasn't even advocating that others follow my practice.

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?
I think a fair reading of Questions 117 and 119 of the Larger Catechism, and Paragraph 8 of Chapter 21 of the Confession, would permit such activity. But then the question becomes whether it is better to skip the ads, so that the NFL does not profit from the profaning of the Lord's day, or whether skipping the ads would constitute a violation of the 8th commandment.
 

Skyler

Puritan Board Graduate
To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.
I will take you up on that challenge. I never liked football anyway. :)

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

or whether skipping the ads would constitute a violation of the 8th commandment.
How could it be a violation of the 8th commandment to ignore ads?
 

he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.
Respectfully, aren't you making assumptions about his intent and thoughts of the heart?
I don't see how I can be, but sure, why not.
By putting quotation marks around challenge then charging him with facetiousness, which assumes that his challenge was not genuine and for your good, but rather to round-aboutly condemn or accuse you.
OK, well, I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty, and he isn't saying that the convictions of those who believe they have liberty are correct, or even may be correct. That's why I called it facetious. I honestly did not get from his post that the possibility exists that we have liberty to watch it. If I am wrong, he'll have to show me where. I think his opinion is that we don't have liberty to watch the game. His opinion may, in fact, be right. But I don't think he was honest. I don't think he is saying, "You have the liberty, but I challenge you to not use it." Why would he challenge us that way?
Instead, I think it would have been more honest and more beneficial to explain why we don't have liberty, and then commence with the list of what is allowable on The Lord's Day.

If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god.
But the question is, do you believe it is your liberty, or do you really want to watch it, and so you file it under 'Liberty, Christian'?
I think it's possible that someone thinks it is a sin to watch TV on the Lord's Day and convinces himself that it is liberty to do so b/c he wants to, but I doubt he'd know that's what he's doing.
I'm going to say that I believe-that-I-believe it is OK to watch TV on the Lord's Day, and even on the Lord's Days when I don't just want to watch it.
 

ADKing

Puritan Board Junior
A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.
This question seems to suppose that it is up to the individual to decide whether he will personally observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown or midnight to midnight. Instead, if the Bible teaches a sundown to sundown practice then, of course it would not be sin (assuming the sun actually was down in your time zone ;)). However, if the Bible teaches a mindnight to midnight Sabbath (as I believe it does cf. John 20.19) then it would be sin regardless of whether a person holds a wrong view of sundown to sundown.
 

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
This question seems to suppose that it is up to the individual to decide whether he will personally observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown or midnight to midnight. Instead, if the Bible teaches a sundown to sundown practice then, of course it would not be sin (assuming the sun actually was down in your time zone ). However, if the Bible teaches a mindnight to midnight Sabbath (as I believe it does cf. John 20.19) then it would be sin regardless of whether a person holds a wrong view of sundown to sundown.
I was merely posing the question and noting that good, godly individuals come to different positions on this. My personal conviction is the setting aside of an entire day is keeping the spirit of the law and allowing for others to view it different, but I am also perfectly willing to listen to views on the contrary (and so as not to hijack the thread, if you wish to PM me on this I would be very open to such a discussion :) ).

Two things to keep in mind: 1) Merely altering the observation (i.e., switching to an evening-to-evening view) merely to accommodate oneself to watching the SB would be going too far and abusing the concept. 2) Waiting until the sun has actually gone down would be mandatory! You might actually have to miss part of the game (horrors!).
 

Edward

Puritanboard Commissioner
How could it be a violation of the 8th commandment to ignore ads?
Some media types have asserted that skipping the commercials is stealing content. They get compensated for the product not directly by you, but by your eyes on the ads. You don't watch the ads, you aren't paying for what you are taking. I am not advocating their position, just suggesting that there is room for debate on this issue. But on my web browser, I do use just a Flashblocker, not an adblocker, because the supplier of the content that I want is entitled to compensation for their labor.

Q. 141. What are the duties required in the eighth commandment?

A. The duties required in the eighth commandment are, truth, faithfulness, and justice in contracts and commerce between man and man;[801] rendering to everyone his due; restitution of goods unlawfully detained from the right owners thereof; giving and lending freely, according to our abilities, and the necessities of others; moderation of our judgments, wills, and affections concerning worldly goods; a provident care and study to get, keep, use, and dispose these things which are necessary and convenient for the sustentation of our nature, and suitable to our condition; a lawful calling, and diligence in it; frugality; avoiding unnecessary lawsuits, and suretiship, or other like engagements; and an endeavor, by all just and lawful means, to procure, preserve, and further the wealth and outward estate of others, as well as our own.
 

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
Wow. That would mean you would have to read every single ad in a magazine as well?
Ouch! Talk about binding the conscience! Would it also mean that you should not get up and leave the room during a commercial? Or that I shouldn't use Ad Block Plus with the Firefox Browser???

Sorry :offtopic:
 

he beholds

Puritan Board Doctor
OK, well, I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty, and he isn't saying that the convictions of those who believe they have liberty are correct, or even may be correct. That's why I called it facetious.
Nowhere did he assert you had the liberty. Rather, he simply addressed the folks who *think* they have such liberty and, according to such a viewpoint, he challenged those to exercise that perceived liberty in not watching the game. That's not being facetious, that's simply asking them to do this from their viewpoint.
I said, "I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty." Though he may be facetiously granting that we MAY have the liberty, in order for him to make any point at all--like for the sake of argument. Otherwise, would he not, as I suggested, just say, "You DO NOT have liberty to watch it. So don't."
Why would someone say, "Those of you who think we have the liberty to wear jeans, I challenge you to use that liberty to not wear jeans."? Why not say, wearing jeans is bad, so you should wear something else, if that's what you really think? And if you don't think that, why mention it at all? I just don't think the premise was totally honest. Sorry. Even the title sounded like there was a struggle involved, but it seems the OP does not struggle with the Superbowl.

I mean, I hate to continue to pick apart the poor OP, but it just doesn't even capture liberty right. Liberty is more than indifference. It's freedom. It really doesn't make sense, at least in my small brain, to say, since you are free to do something, I challenge you not to do it! Why?? That's why I thought it'd be better to throw all the cards on the table and challenge the idea that you have the liberty at all. Not challenge your use of it.

Sure, sometimes it is good advice to say, though you may wear jeans, I challenge you to not wear them. But you'd have to give some kind of reason, like, so you can wash your favorite pair finally, or something. But to just say, "You may think it's OK, but I challenge you not to," is not the full picture. Sure, he gave us alternatives, and what we were allowed to do. And he said that it would profit our souls, but he didn't say why the other wouldn't profit our souls.
I don't know, maybe I did read it wrong. But I definitely don't think I've made any assumptions of the heart of the OP. I guess saying it'd have been more honest to say it another way could be questioning his character. But I was really questioning his methodology, because I feel like I understand his intent. And if I'm wrong, I don't think I was assuming anything more than anyone else would have to do in order to have a discussion. I mean, I had to assume he meant something, right?

This is definitely the weirdest Off Topicness I've been guilty of for a long time! Sorry, OP!
 

greenbaggins

Administrator
Staff member
I think a lot of the difficulty here is that Robert is saying that some people believe that they have the liberty to watch the SB, but he doesn't believe that. He is trying to enter the ground of the other position, and then make a suggestion on that basis. As I read him, what he is saying is that there are more profitable ways of spending one's time on the Sabbath, even if someone believes that the SB is not a violation of the 4th commandment.

As a side note, I don't believe watching football on Sunday is a matter of liberty, even though I will certainly not "hereticize" anyone who does think it is a matter of liberty. And this is painful for me, since I really enjoy football. So I watch the highlights on Monday. That rests okay with my conscience.
 

jayce475

Puritan Board Freshman
What do you guys think about having a page on my internet browser showing me the live score and checking on it once to a while to see how the Packers are doing?
 

greenbaggins

Administrator
Staff member
What do you guys think about having a page on my internet browser showing me the live score and checking on it once to a while to see how the Packers are doing?
Jason, it is a matter for your conscience and your conscience alone. As for me, it wouldn't let me off the hook, since someone has to maintain that website on Sunday.
 
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