The United States and Interracial Marriage

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I don't know what else to say...I simply cannot convince anyone that racism still exists and is alive and in the church.

Shawn,

I'm convinced! I'm just joining the conversation today. Not only am I convinced, but I've seen it first-hand many many times in the church, even from some ordained PCA elders. I'm sickened by it, offended, and have even confronted people about it. I've been in churches where it's okay to criticize filling up your car with gas on the Lord's Day, but one dare not talk of the sin of racism. So I get it. I see it, and I'm on board with you.

But there is hope. We are part of a multi-racial congregation in Jackson, MS, about 30% Black, 68% White and 2% other. Our pastor, Mike Campbell (an African American) will be the first to tell you that the reconciliation that we see coming about at the church is because of the gospel. The church does explicitly mention "racial reconciliation" in it's purpose and vision, but this takes place through the preaching of the gospel.

I'm still learning and repenting of hatefulness in my past. I'm convinced that racism and prejudice are like any sins; if we're honest, we never conquer them perfectly, but we confess, repent and do fight. And it is my hope and prayer that my children will never grow up having to "overcome" and "undo" so much of sinful racist tendencies that I grew up with.

I definitely think this is an issue that needs to be addressed by the church and have the searing light of the gospel shined upon it. I'm thankful that some strides are being made, especially in the Deep South.
 
Sadly, there was a Justice of the Peace near where I live who refused to marry an interracial couple about a year or two ago. Regardless of the law, his practice was to refer them elsewhere due to the "challenges" that would ensue from such a liaison. Apparently this went on for a year or so until a couple decided to go to the news media and filed suit. He quickly resigned after the Governor and many others called for him to resignation.

I'm surprised that the curse of Ham hasn't been brought up. That's been used to justify slavery and racism in general, often by those who have no use for the Bible otherwise. I don't remember where I saw it, but recently I saw a woman post that she had recently heard a sermon in which the preacher asserted that that interpretation was the correct one. If I'm not mistaken, some have traced this interpretation as having originated with Mslms in Medieval times.

I'll also note that while some may have issues with Asians and Hispanics, for many whites the prospect of interracial marriage between blacks and whites is particularly frowned upon, with some professing Christians preferring their children to marry another white who gives no evidence of being a Christian as opposed to marrying a black Christian. But some of the same people could care less about their child marrying an Asian.

As hinted at above, (although the question if interracial marriage would probably be looked at the same way by many) there are also clear differences between the perception of black African immigrants and African Americans that are the descendants of slaves. In many cases due to cultural, historical and other reasons, relations between whites and recent immigrants are often better than those between the descendants of slaves and recent immigrants as well as whites. There's less cultural and historical "baggage" there.

With regard to churches, it sometimes cuts both ways, although obviously the dynamic is different with regard to privilege, etc. I've known of blacks who don't want to be in an integrated church or who at the least prefer to remain in the black church for various reasons. I saw one woman comment on Anthony Bradley's blog that she basically hated white people and hated having to deal with them during the week and considered church to be a refuge from having to deal with white people. (I have no idea whether the feeling was justified in any sense or what she may have had to put up with on a regular basis.) In my hometown, there is a black Baptist church that is pastored by a Nigerian immigrant. After he took over, it has grown rapidly into sort of a mini megachurch, at least for that area. He started inviting white preachers into the pulpit from time to time, most if not all being charismatic/pentecostal. This plus his messages on local TV led to whites attending and joining what had been a relatively small church just a few years prior. He said he knew this would probably cause a "Black Out" (i.e. some black members leaving the church) but that he thought it was the right thing to do regardless.

While some of what he posts leaves me shaking my head, I think Anthony Bradley has some good thoughts on these issues. I saw him write once that in most cases having an integrated church is going to necessitate having minorities in leadership. That may account for the success at Redeemer PCA in Jackson, MS that Thomas noted. If it can be successful in Jackson then it would seem that it can be done anywhere.
 
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Exactly Chris,I think you hit on some of the main points that I wanted addressed. I also think you hit a VERY good point when you said the "black" churches not wanting to be integrated into "white" churches either.I see a problem in the black community and churches, black liberation theology and the social gospel has had devastating a stronghold on the black community over the years. I agree with Dr. Anthony Bradley on some things and disagree with other things, we don't always have to end up with the same conclusion to realize there is a problem.

As a black male who grew up and lives in the suburbs,who loves studying theology,interested in academics and has had(and still does) many white friends and even dated white girls,I generally did not get accepted in a lot of black circles for it.I am considered an outcast by some of my own family members because I choose to fellowship at a predominantly white church, I chose to date girls outside of my race, I choose to hang out with some kids who aren't that culturally in-tune, I'm repeatedly told I am attributing to tearing down the black community because I have to conviction to not stick to race, but my faith.I am honestly fed up with being captive to the lies society feeds us. If being "black" means I cant befriend who I want ,marry who I want, go to church where I want , work at where I want, live where I want,preventing me from doing the will God has called me to do without having people trying to impose their unbiblical,eisegetic,prideful,man-centered,sinful opinions upon me, then by ALL means count me out. That is with any race, I have talked on various occasions to brothers and sisters from all different races who feel the same way, I refuse and will not hold on to ANY form of tradition,practice or teaching that is inconsistent with the character of the triune God,his scripture and gospel message.You can see this in the new YRR movement and resurgence,while some may say their misguided, they are doing it with good intentions and seeking to please God and not man.

But some will ignore us,some will ignore the problems, refuse to speak on it,tell us "settle down" it's not that big of a deal, but only if you knew.You may not see it because people can be real good with masking their heart and feelings,that doesn't mean it's not there alive and well waiting to devour, and it will continue to try to secretly ensnare Christians until we expose and stand together to fight it. God has and is doing great things, years ago it wouldn't have been possible for a black male like me to even talk to you guys,fellowship with you, build a real friendship, work with you and a lot of other things.Some people till this day still don't agree with the equality we have, but the thing is God's will is getting done not ours and I cant sit back and not give him praise and glory for what he has done not only in our hearts but outwardly in the world. Just as covenant Israel I will remember the Lord all of my days and give him praise for what he has done through out history, even if at times it seems a messy one he is still working things together for the good of his people.While I don't too much care for some of the overly black liberated dispensational teachings of Martin Luther King Jr,while he may have gotten his destination coordinates mixed up, he started from biblical starting point.
 
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Perhaps I should also say that our Covenanter brethren have a distinguished history in opposing slavery, one from which the broader-streamed Presbyterians would have done well to learn.

I came across a piece by Alexander M'Leod, who pastored the Reformed Presbyterian congregation in NYC at the beginning of the 19th century, which I thought I would share as a good illustration of this opposition to slavery:
Negro slavery unjustifiable: a discourse - Alexander M'Leod - Google Books
 
it has grown rapidly into sort of a mini megachurch

A mini mega church? Wouldn't the mini cancel out the mega? :lol:

Well, the church growth gurus etc. have certain criteria for what qualifies as a megachurch. Wiki says it's 2000 or more in weekend attendance. I don't know if that particular congregation is or was consistently at that level or not. It might only be 1000. Or maybe it's not even at that level. Regardless, for our purposes here as well as for that area (a small metropolitan area) it's mega.

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Here are some links to articles that may be of some interest or of some help. They are by a Presbyterian pastor, Bob Vincent, who has been concerned with this issue for many years.

Conservative Presbyterian Tensions

Studies on Various Topics (Scroll down to "Racism")

Do note that Bob is one of the original "Reformed Charismatics" or "Charismatic Calvinists" and has been since the early 1980's, way before it became cool. Thus this linkage does not constitute an endorsement of everything on the site. That notwithstanding, I think there's a lot of good material there about the Reformed faith as well as other issues such as Oneness Pentecostalism. (Prior to that he was a Covenanter and RPCNA pastor! I think that may still influence his political thought to some degree.)



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I think it would be an understatement to say that Dr. Malcolm Yarnell of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary wouldn't qualify for admission to the PB, (Nor would he wish to apply, I'm sure.) But this article he posted two years ago is very good with regard to pastoral challenges, etc. Malcolm Yarnell: A Southern Baptist's Pilgrimage From Racism
 
I will not sit back and watch anyone get treated unjustly in Christ's name and neither would the disciples.

And we all agree with you.

If you can, I would highly exhort you to examine your heart in the light of scripture.

You appear to be speaking as if there has been some sort of disagreement in this thread on racism. Hasn't everyone agreed with you that racism is an awful thing and should be firmly opposed by the church?

I think it's a real problem when the world can see that racism still exists and can address it faster then the church can

Can you explain this? I see racism both in and outside of the church. In what way is the world addressing it in a "fast" manner, while the church is not?
 
You appear to be speaking as if there has been some sort of disagreement in this thread on racism. Hasn't everyone agreed with you that racism is an awful thing and should be firmly opposed by the church?

Hello Daniel,

I wasn't speaking to anyone on this board directly, nobody I am aware of has said anything in this discussion that has necessarily disagreed that it doesn't exist.I will say,some may disagree on how we are to handle it although,but I'm not tied up on that.The target group I was more specifically aiming for were those who would read this on the board and off,my apologies if I portrayed it that way.


Can you explain this? I see racism both in and outside of the church. In what way is the world addressing it in a "fast" manner, while the church is not?

I said this statement because I see the media has always been all over the topic of racism,from the racist comments of Jeremiah Wright in the Obama campaign,all the way to the Kentucky pastor who refused to marry the interracial couple and more events that you can look up.These are all instances of churches that refuse to speak up on their racist positions until exposed and acknowledged by the media.What i'm trying to exhort is for christians to always be on guard for these attitudes and behaviors especially when it's been condemned by the text.We all can fall victim to it,so that's why we must constantly battle sin.I just wanted to share my pain and my heart over how much division it has called within the body, that is all.I commend the efforts I have seen and read about by the PCA,OPC and other reformed denominations who have said they repent as denomination for any injustices of their forefathers and also any individuals who did these shameful acts in Christ's name.My heart rejoices at the fact I have brothers and sisters in the Lord that are going to be fighting racism as well as other things unconditionally to make a stronger and unified church for the glory of God.
 
John Lanier;


Being from Alabama, I understand the whole Southern pride thing and I understand that the Civil War (or the War of Northern Agression if you so choose) wasn't fought about slavery alone. I get it. However, I never really understood the other view on the flag until hearing the perspective of someone that understood the other view. My best friend is African American. I don't think that Shawn is stereotyping anybody with what he said. I understand that the flag doesn't make one a racist. Truth is though that the confederate flag cannot ever be separated from the horrible acts of slavery. Whether anyone likes it or not, the flag is associated with racism. Therefore, people have a choice to make. 1) Keep the flag and try to explain all the time how you are not racist or 2) Remove what is a sign of the horrors and injustices of slavery and have nothing to do with it. I personally can be happy about being from the South without it.

Interesting, I wonder why many don't see the American flag the same way, given it was the Flag that flew over the ships that brought the slaves to America on--but that is totally off topic.

as far as racism and inter-ethnic marriages..I have heard more blacks (in my area of the south) complain more about blacks dating outside their ethnicity than I have any other group. Even in California in the early 1970's I saw a black family shun their son and his family because he married someone not black and their children were mixed ethnicity.

I personally haven't witnessed it in churches here or other places I've lived...but is it at all possible that they aren't really being 'discriminated against' ?
Have they considered it may not be about the color of their skin? Or the fact they are married to someone outside their ethnicity?

Could it be a personal perception? Thinking other people are 'thinking' it??

I know people who 'think' that because they don't wear designer clothes to church or don't live in a particular neighborhood that those who do 'look down on them'
when in reality they don't..it's just their own internal thoughts they have based on how they were raised to think about themselves or others based on what they hear in the media--they haven't learned the value they have as people..not based on their money or supposed worldly financial status..it's like it's ingrained that they are some how not equals to them merely because of outward appearances--when in reality, it has more to do with their own perception not just of others, but of themselves that causes the issues they have inside or the perception they think others have of them.

One of my son's friends has a huge 'skin color' chip on his shoulder thinking anyone who wasn't black was out to get him (now how they played into he and my son who is white--being friends...never really made since--I mean, if all whites are out to get him and my son is white..then why didn't it translate over to that or any of his other white friends???) When I tried to point out that inconsistency...he didn't grasp he was being inconsistent in what he said he believed to be true and his actions.
 
thbslawson;

The facts in the article have been verified. It's still very much a problem in some areas of the deep South.

Okay, that's in Mississippi, here is another poll that says the opposite based on a larger polling group across many states not just one. So do we go by the larger group of Americans polled, or by one small sector of one state to make such a general assumption, that there is an extremely large racism issue? While I agree some people are racist, that doesn't mean all of those in the Mississippi poll are racist..some may just disagree with inter-ethnic marriages because they want to preserve their skin color is that racist??

Record-High 86% Approve of Black-White Marriages
Ninety-six percent of blacks, 84% of whites approve

Record-High 86% Approve of Black-White Marriages

However, here is an article about black women who only desire to marry black men (they only want chocolate babies--does this make them racist??)

An Interracial Fix for Black Marriage - WSJ.com

Your views on interracial marriages - CNN

But lets look at the numbers within the Mississippi poll..

46% of those polled--well, that means that 54% of those polled felt differently..15% percent were unsure, so that leaves 40% who have no problem with it.

The company asked 400 Republican primary voters about their preferences for candidates for state and national offices, as well as their views on interracial marriage.

So lets look at the numbers..they called about 400 people in Mississippi and asked their opinion on this topic...

15% or about 60 of those 400 are unsure what they think about inter-ethnic marriages
40% or about 160 of those 400 have no problem with it..
46% or about 180 people disagree with it..

So of the 400--more than half are either unsure or have no problem with it..so why focus on the 160 who have an issue with it? Why not be thankful that more than half of those polled are either unsure or have no problem with it?
 
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I don't really have much to contribute on this thread, but here is a personal anecdote that just happened to me:

My son came home two days ago from playing with his friends and asked, "Am I a whitey." This seems to be the first time he has outwardly noted the issue of color.

When he plays with all of his lowland tribal friends, he seems impervious to race, and this race-consciousness only began to happen after a large influx of tribal children from the mountains occurred (resulting in the lowlanders and the highlanders largely segregating their own play, with Noah not sure what to do, seeing the play groups split sort of into two). An interesting dynamic.
 
hile I agree some people are racist, that doesn't mean all of those in the Mississippi poll are racist

You have to be real careful when using polls, percentages and statistics,especially ones presented by the media.Sometimes they don't clearly define what they mean, ex. which type of interracial marriage are that they speaking of? People of the same color but different heritage or nationality?People of same ethnicity but slightly different variation of color?Bottom line is I believe it's safe to say,we've finally come to an agreement that racism still exists inside and outside of the church no matter the "color"it's a problem we have to expect never to be fully tamed perfectly(at least on this earth),but is one to always to confront and fight against.


One of my son's friends has a huge 'skin color' chip on his shoulder thinking anyone who wasn't black was out to get him

You will have a couple of those who wish to take the "cry wolf" approach with racism.You see guys like Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton etc. who feel their need to relate EVERY social issue to racism, this is surely not the case and most african americans I know of disagree with them and their approach to social issues.Even with those instances,we should never downplay or belittle a charge of racism,always keeping in mind that their has been and still is legitimate cases of injustice.
 
Bobbi Clark,

I'd refer you to this article.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/08/46-percent-of-mississippi-republicans-want-interracial-marriage-banned/

The facts in the article have been verified. It's still very much a problem in some areas of the deep South.

I suspected, before I even looked, that the poll cited was done by the infamous "Pulblic Policiy Polling." I would trust the methodology of that group about as far as I can throw an anvil with no hands.
 
Mark,

I would challenge you not to write it off though simply because of the source. From my experience I wouldn't doubt that statistic to be true or close to it.
 
So of the 400--more than half are either unsure or have no problem with it..so why focus on the 160[sic] who have an issue with it?
Because they didn't find everyone in Mississippi who felt that way. They found a small sample of a greater number. The poll's purpose is to be representative, a sample of the whole population. We're not focusing on 180, we'd be focusing on how prevalent it is -- almost HALF OF MISSISSIPPI is sure they are against it!

And if Mississippi felt this way, how do Louisiana or Alabama residents feel on this issue?

I'm in an interracial relationship. My girlfriend was adopted from Bangladesh at the age of 1yr, so she speaks and acts just like a Grand Rapids, MI Christian. I hope some day to marry her. So some of this is a little relevant to me.
 
I'm in an interracial relationship. My girlfriend was adopted from Bangladesh at the age of 1yr, so she speaks and acts just like a Grand Rapids, MI Christian. I hope some day to marry her. So some of this is a little relevant to me.

I am happy to hear that Jonathan, this is another reason why I started this thread.I want to encourage those who are in interracial relationships/marriages from all backgrounds.Like I said before years ago, a lot of these things were prohibited lawfully and it's a great privilege for this upcoming generation to get to witness God breaking down these worldly barriers to bring in people from all races and nations into one family, under one savior.
 
Mark,

I would challenge you not to write it off though simply because of the source. From my experience I wouldn't doubt that statistic to be true or close to it.

Thomas: From MY experience living in Mississippi for over 40 years, being involved in polling, and having been involved in Republican politics and lobbying, I would very seriously doubt that statistic to be true, even without the very dubious (In my humble opinion) polling organization.

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They found a small sample of a greater number. The poll's purpose is to be representative, a sample of the whole population. We're not focusing on 180, we'd be focusing on how prevalent it is -- almost HALF OF MISSISSIPPI is sure they are against it!

Actually, no. Step back and consider, if one believes the "poll" is valid, then about 50% of folks who actually showed up to vote in the Republican primary are "against it." Not 50% of "Mississippians." Mississippi is certainly not monolithic republican even in the caucasian population. Nor do most of the roughly 40% of Mississippi's population that are African Americans tend to vote in the republican primary.

If you were to design a poll that gave a "wee" bit too much weight to much older caucasians in certain parts of the state, the numbers would skew even higher for opposition to IR marriage. If one designed a poll that gave a "wee" bit too much weight to folks in big college towns (big is relative here), you could make the numbers skew very low. Its not terribly hard to do. This is not to say there are not racists in Mississippi. It would be silly to think otherwise, and racism exists everywhere, unfortunately. However, it is my opinion that any poll that attempts to paint roughly 50% of Mississippi republican voters in that light is flawed, if not skewed. If you took that poll 30 years ago, with perfect methodology, it might not surprise me.

Peace.
 
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JS

You have to be real careful when using polls, percentages and statistics,especially ones presented by the media.Sometimes they don't clearly define what they mean, ex. which type of interracial marriage are that they speaking of? People of the same color but different heritage or nationality?People of same ethnicity but slightly different variation of color?Bottom line is I believe it's safe to say,we've finally come to an agreement that racism still exists inside and outside of the church no matter the "color"it's a problem we have to expect never to be fully tamed perfectly(at least on this earth),but is one to always to confront and fight against.

Exactly, you have to be careful with polls, and the one I broke down was from the link you posted and referred to, yet it appears you want to discount the other poll--because it doesn't show the same result which is a greater sampling across the United States in General.

46 Percent of Mississippi Republicans Want Interracial Marriage Banned

And just so you know..I wasn't disagreeing with you that racism exists..just showing it's not only about 1 color of people being racist against another and that it ISN'T ONLY confined to the Southern United States. (please look at the other polls)


One of my son's friends has a huge 'skin color' chip on his shoulder thinking anyone who wasn't black was out to get him

You will have a couple of those who wish to take the "cry wolf" approach with racism.You see guys like Jesse Jackson,Al Sharpton etc. who feel their need to relate EVERY social issue to racism, this is surely not the case and most african americans I know of disagree with them and their approach to social issues.Even with those instances,we should never downplay or belittle a charge of racism,always keeping in mind that their has been and still is legitimate cases of injustice.

Actually, there are more than a couple who 'cry wolf' the ones you mentioned scream the loudest because that is how they make their living.

IF MORE people of all colors of skin spoke out against them...they wouldn't make any money and thus they would probably go away..

but racism isn't just AGAINST blacks (which is what it appears your most concerned about)--its covers all skin tones...why not be concerned about ALL racism??
Against all shades of people?



Jonathan,

Like I said, that was one survey, so lets look that other one that I posted the link to, which represents the United States as a whole..which is why I'm asking why look only at the one from Mississippi??

Record-High 86% Approve of Black-White Marriages


1,319 adults were polled

Of those 86% of the population (as whole) have no qualms over mixed marriages.

so of the 1,319 people polled--1,134 of them have no qualms and 185 people don't agree with it or have no opinion on the issue..FOR whatever reason..it may have nothing at all to do with being racist..there are so many things involved that one would have to look at to determine whether every single one of them who disagree with it are truly racist or not..be they black or white and any and all shades of skin color in between--

So I ask again--do we focus on ONE state and claim that represents ALL of America??? or do we look at the population of the united states as a whole to get a TRUE representation of the United States? Maybe they should poll ONLY Democrats in Mississippi and get their opinion?? You can't say that particular poll represents the ENTIRE State (much less the entire United States or even a Political Party)--when they only polled one small sector of people...only those in ONE political party in only one of 50 states--to get an honest and more accurate poll they would have to poll MORE of the population not just one segment based on how they are registered to vote in elections. It's misleading..so again, yes, I say..We can not look at only those 180 people and say it is a TRUE representation of an entire state..

Why only mention southern States? Why not mention Washington State or New Hampshire? Illinois? Colorado? Alaska? Hawaii? Or even Massachusetts?

RACISM BLAMED FOR BRAWL AT U. OF MASSACHUSETTS - NYTimes.com

Millard - NOBLESSE OBLIGE RACISM AT WORK IN WASHINGTON STATE? by H. Millard (c) 2001

My daughter is married to Puerto Rican, thus my granddaughter is bi-racial, my niece is also bi-racial.--so please don't assume the issue doesn't effect my family,

I get sick of people assuming Southern States are the ONLY place in America where this exists--And coming across that it's ONLY White people who are racists when in reality its every where and every color of people can be racist against a different color people..
 
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I suppose one thing that concerns me in all of this discussion is the amount of energy that is seemingly being exerted to defend against the charge of remaining racism in the church, rather than expose it and combat it. I wonder if it would be taken so lightly if it were any other sin.

I'm by no means saying that every accusation or speculation of racism in the church is accurate, but I think we'd be fooling ourselves if we said it was minimal or didn't exist. Is the situation better than in the 1960's and 70's? Of course. But is it still alive and even well in some places? Most certainly. Hatred and prejudice against others, whether active or passive, is a blatant breaking of the second table of the law, to "love your neighbor as yourself". Dare we take that lightly?
 
I suppose one thing that concerns me in all of this discussion is the amount of energy that is seemingly being exerted to defend against the charge of remaining racism in the church, rather than expose it and combat it. I wonder if it would be taken so lightly if it were any other sin.

Who, posting in this thread, has FAILED to condemn racism, in the Church or elsewhere?
 
Who, posting in this thread, has FAILED to condemn racism, in the Church or elsewhere?

Where did I accuse anyone of failing to condemn racism? I stated...

I suppose one thing that concerns me in all of this discussion is the amount of energy that is seemingly being exerted to defend against the charge of remaining racism in the church, rather than expose it and combat it. I wonder if it would be taken so lightly if it were any other sin.

I never said anyone "failed to condemn racism".
 
Who, posting in this thread, has FAILED to condemn racism, in the Church or elsewhere?

Where did I accuse anyone of failing to condemn racism? I stated...

I suppose one thing that concerns me in all of this discussion is the amount of energy that is seemingly being exerted to defend against the charge of remaining racism in the church, rather than expose it and combat it. I wonder if it would be taken so lightly if it were any other sin.

I never said anyone "failed to condemn racism".

With utmost humilty, when in the context of this thread, which is where the conversation is taking place, you say racism in the church is "defended," "taken lightly," "not exposed," and folks do not "combat it" it is hard for me, at least, to read that as other than a failure to condemn and carry out that condmenation.
 
With utmost humilty, when you say its "defended," "taken lightly," "not exposed," and folks do not "combat it" it is hard for me, at least, to read that as other than a failure to condemn and carry out that condmenation.

I apologize for not stating what I meant more clearly then. My concern is with the fact that when presented with the above statistic about registered Republicans in MS, many of the first reactions were to doubt the accuracy of the poll and question the source rather than consider if it's true or not. Other comments, some made here and some not, that frequently come up are "Well, black people are racists too" or "It's not race but culture" or "Other countries have race problems too." While all these statements are to some degree true, they tend to minimize or draw attention away from the main issue. One can for sure condemn racism, but that doesn't mean he or she is willing or prepared to do anything about it.

Now, I'll admit, I am basing a lot of what I'm saying upon personal experiences, experiences that others may not have had. As a white male I've been privy to back room conversations, mumbled comments and off-color jokes from others in Reformed circles that have utterly appalled me. I suppose in these situations they assume that because I'm white and southern that I'll either let it slide or get a kick out of it. I don't know. I know first-hand of brothers preaching on the circuit who were warned "Don't touch the racism issue." The point is, I still see it as a big problem, and one that is not so readily addressed as others.
 
I will point blank tell you I absolutely doubt the accuracy of that poll, or any poll by that group. It's not my first rodeo with pollsters in Mississippi.

However, you are totally correct and to be commended for pointing out that simply because other races have "racism" issues, or that racism exists in other places in our world, or that folks have given "lip service" to the existence of the problem, this does not excuse any of us for condoning racism in any shape or form, active or passive.

Peace.
 
Thomas:

I've spoken all over this country (and in Canada). And I can tell you, when folk find out that I am from Mississippi (they can tell right away that I'm a white guy :)), I've had a few racist remarks made with a wink and a nod, figuring that I'll be in agreement.

Racism was far worse than most of us imagine and it used to be quite blatant. I could certainly tell stories from my youth, particularly in reponse to my having close black friends and what that cost me in earlier years. It's gotten much better, is not as blatant, but is still very much with us. Polling or not (I would not expect people to be truthful about racial matters with a pollster, as racism is socially unacceptable in public), it exists.

I think that the rising generations continue to improve with regards to this, although I have been more than a little dismayed by reports from my son of pervasive racist remarks in private at his college (a private, Reformed institution).

I agree entirely that we need to continue to be vigilant in opposing such.

Peace,
Alan
 
Thomas,

Now, I'll admit, I am basing a lot of what I'm saying upon personal experiences, experiences that others may not have had. As a white male I've been privy to back room conversations, mumbled comments and off-color jokes from others in Reformed circles that have utterly appalled me. I suppose in these situations they assume that because I'm white and southern that I'll either let it slide or get a kick out of it. I don't know. I know first-hand of brothers preaching on the circuit who were warned "Don't touch the racism issue." The point is, I still see it as a big problem, and one that is not so readily addressed as others.

Did you call them out on it when you heard such things?? Or did you refrain from commenting at all?

Refraining from comments against it makes one just as guilty...


Shawn,

As a black male who grew up and lives in the suburbs,who loves studying theology, interested in academics and has had(and still does) many white friends and even dated white girls, I generally did not get accepted in a lot of black circles for it.I am considered an outcast by some of my own family members because I choose to fellowship at a predominantly white church, I chose to date girls outside of my race, I choose to hang out with some kids who aren't that culturally in-tune, I'm repeatedly told I am attributing to tearing down the black community because I have to conviction to not stick to race, but my faith.I am honestly fed up with being captive to the lies society feeds us. If being "black" means I cant befriend who I want ,marry who I want, go to church where I want , work at where I want, live where I want,preventing me from doing the will God has called me to do without having people trying to impose their unbiblical, eisegetic,prideful,man-centered,sinful opinions upon me, then by ALL means count me out. That is with any race, I have talked on various occasions to brothers and sisters from all different races who feel the same way, I refuse and will not hold on to ANY form of tradition,practice or teaching that is inconsistent with the character of the triune God,his scripture and gospel message.You can see this in the new YRR movement and resurgence,while some may say their misguided, they are doing it with good intentions and seeking to please God and not man.

Have you addressed the issue with your family members?

A question? have the people at your predominately white church you attend accepted and welcomed you?

If so, then isn't it possible the underlying issue your facing is more about your 'family' and other 'blacks' in your community don't like the fact you see things 'differently' than they do, even theologically different? Are you challenging them in their beliefs?

How do they react to people of other colors going to their church services? If you invited some of your white or Hispanic or Asian friends to their church how do you think they would react? given as you said
I generally did not get accepted in a lot of black circles for it. I am considered an outcast by some of my own family members, because I choose to fellowship at a predominantly white church, I chose to date girls outside of my race, I choose to hang out with some kids who aren't that culturally in-tune, I'm repeatedly told I am attributing to tearing down the black community because I have to conviction to not stick to race, but my faith.
I'm just curious, if they think you are contributing to the break down of the black community how would they view your inviting non-blacks into their church? Isn't it Ultimately God's church-- not a black/white/hispanic/asian/middle eastern peoples church?
 
yet it appears you want to discount the other poll--because it doesn't show the same result which is a greater sampling across the United States in General.

Wait..wait..wait a minute Bobbi I really do think you assuming some things that are not true, regarding the poll I didn't "discount" anything as you put it, I simply stated you have to be careful when using statistics I personally refer to them as little as possible, if you re-read what I put in the OP I clearly stated that the article I posted was what sparked me to bring up the conversation, not did I once use the results to prove anything, in this discussion I only used facts and personals experiences of myself and others.


but racism isn't just AGAINST blacks (which is what it appears your most concerned about)--its covers all skin tones...why not be concerned about ALL racism??

Again you assumed wrongly,I made it pretty clear that ALL racism was a sin and needed to get dealt with or not if it was done by blacks,whites or whoever

I will not sit back and watch anyone get treated unjustly in Christ's name

Notice the italics on the word "anyone" so what makes you think I am being biased?What makes you think that you have the right to assume that i'm not concerned about all races? It may be the way you worded it or maybe I'm misunderstanding, but you have offended me by making that statement.

I get sick of people assuming Southern States are the ONLY place in America where this exists--And coming across that it's ONLY White people who are racists when in reality its every where and every color of people can be racist against a different color people..

I agree,also I never made the statement saying the south "the south is the ONLY place" where it exists..If you re-read what I put about my family you will see for yourself I am exposing them as well,that right there is showing you that I do not tolerate it no matter who it's from, my family, church, friends, myself or whoever.The church I was a member thankfully no I didn't experience racism, but the churches I have attended but not joined I have experienced it first hand.
 
You all are missing the most important part of the poll. 4% of Mississippi republicans are 'very liberal'.

After all, it's the poll result, so it has to be true. Right?
 
They found a small sample of a greater number. The poll's purpose is to be representative, a sample of the whole population. We're not focusing on 180, we'd be focusing on how prevalent it is -- almost HALF OF MISSISSIPPI is sure they are against it!

Actually, no. Step back and consider, if one believes the "poll" is valid, then about 50% of folks who actually showed up to vote in the Republican primary are "against it." Not 50% of "Mississippians." Mississippi is certainly not monolithic republican even in the caucasian population. Nor do most of the roughly 40% of Mississippi's population that are African Americans tend to vote in the republican primary. [...]

Peace.
I admit, I misread it/did not understand that it was conducted at Republican primary. That's a huge failure on my part. Thank you for your correction.

Grace and peace
 
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