The Wrath of God; Hurricane Katrina

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WrittenFromUtopia

Puritan Board Graduate
This is incredible. We need to be mindful of God's people who live in or around New Orleans. This is going to be terrible, from what the news and weather sources are saying ... the entire city could be under 20 ft. of water. The Hurricane is now at 175 mph winds and is gaining strength until landfall with all of that warm water in the gulf. God have mercy on His people, but do as He will.

:pray2:
 
This was my thought on the matter this morning. What a wicked city. I hope God awakens the soul of such a wretched place. There is some good work that the PCA is doing there in the name of Christ. May it grow while the sin of the city is restrained and put off. God have mercy in calling many to himself.
 
I have visited New Orleans once, but never again. Never have I been to such a twisted, pagan, evil-filled city with such a feeling of darkness all around me and permeating everything and everyone I came in contact with. I know there are God's elect there, but the city in general reminds me of Sodom. :um:
 
Whilst it is true that New Orleans is a city with much sinfulness. So is every city in this nation. We should be EXTREMELY cautious in ascribing God's judgment to any natural disaster. Such talk smacks of spiritual arrogance.
 
I agree Lawrence. The same storm which may mean wrath for some, could also be a means of affliction and sanctification for the elect.
 
My mother in law will be there soon during hurricaine season...

She is a God-fearing lady. I pray God's mercy be with all there, and those visiting.
 
Hurricanes are nothing but a sign of God's judgment on the fallen world and its sinfulness. The earth is cursed by sin, and we see this in a variety of ways. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with saying a hurricane is an act of God's judgment and wrath. What else IS it?
 
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
I have visited New Orleans once, but never again. Never have I been to such a twisted, pagan, evil-filled city with such a feeling of darkness all around me and permeating everything and everyone I came in contact with. I know there are God's elect there, but the city in general reminds me of Sodom. :um:
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Gabe, I'll just offer a statement made by one of my pastors....

If Satan were to be a mayor of a city - what would that look like? It would be picturesque; no bars or X-rated theatres; clean streets, nice people and obedient children -- everybody would self-righteously go to church on Sunday, where speeches on good works are emphasized and the Gospel is not preached! (Sort of like Salt Lake City.) :eek:

Meanwhile....'tis all too true, nature's fury are indeed acts of the Sovereign Creator-King; Lord of all the forces in the universe.

May we all be humble and rightly awed before His power; remembering that He is good and merciful!

Selah

:candle:

Robin
 
Originally posted by Craig
My mother in law will be there soon during hurricaine season...

She is a God-fearing lady. I pray God's mercy be with all there, and those visiting.
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:amen: Praying, Craig...

:pray2:

Robin
 
Thank you, Josh. I'm glad you understood. This storm has already caused me to step back and become penitent towards the Lord, knowing that I would be rightly judged as the sinner I am, but I praise God that I am His and that I can abide in the love of Christ.
 
Originally posted by puritansailor
I agree Lawrence. The same storm which may mean wrath for some, could also be a means of affliction and sanctification for the elect.
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:amen: Patrick!

Another thought that makes me a bit uneasy....

What IF things like a hurricane are NOT necessarily powers of judgment - but may be expressions of God's powers, in general? (Acts 2:2)

Hmmm....

r.
 
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Hurricanes are nothing but a sign of God's judgment on the fallen world and its sinfulness. The earth is cursed by sin, and we see this in a variety of ways. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with saying a hurricane is an act of God's judgment and wrath. What else IS it?
Click to expand...

:ditto::ditto::ditto:

back after the tsunami in south east asia a FPCoS minister got hell from the world b/c he made a similar statement. Its the duty of a prophet of God to declare God's judgment against sin and unbelief. I don't understand how someone who believes in the sovereignty of God and the wrath of God against sin cannot see such aweful destructions as tokens of His extreme displeasure.
 
Exactly. The Tsunami had a significant effect on me in various ways. I was brought to nothing, thinking about the lives lost, and then I was brought to awe before the Lord and His power, wrath, and majesty - and JUSTICE - in killing all of those people according to His eternal decree. We shouldn't question God's right to judge the earth in time, nor should we try and "explain away" things as if God was the God of Deism. But, we have to keep a proper balance, and make sure we don't become extreme.
 
Originally posted by Robin
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
I have visited New Orleans once, but never again. Never have I been to such a twisted, pagan, evil-filled city with such a feeling of darkness all around me and permeating everything and everyone I came in contact with. I know there are God's elect there, but the city in general reminds me of Sodom. :um:
Click to expand...

Gabe, I'll just offer a statement made by one of my pastors....

If Satan were to be a mayor of a city - what would that look like? It would be picturesque; no bars or X-rated theatres; clean streets, nice people and obedient children -- everybody would self-righteously go to church on Sunday, where speeches on good works are emphasized and the Gospel is not preached! (Sort of like Salt Lake City.) :eek:

Meanwhile....'tis all too true, nature's fury are indeed acts of the Sovereign Creator-King; Lord of all the forces in the universe.

May we all be humble and rightly awed before His power; remembering that He is good and merciful!

Selah

:candle:

Robin
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Satan has many strategies Robin. For some it is open lasciviousness, for others he is more subtle. He knows the weakness of our natural constitution and has special devices to suit it.
 
Select examples of notable historical catastrophes (natural or man-made) which have been viewed as judgments of God and also inspired, by God's grace, many to repentance (cf. Gen. 50.50):

Fall of Jerusalem (70)
Eruption of Mt. Vesuvius Destroyed Pompeii (79)
Fall of Rome (410)
The Black Death (1357-1360)
Fall of Constantinople (1453)
St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
Thirty Years War (1618-1648)
Massacre of Ulster Protestants (1641)
Great Plague of London (1665)
Great Fire of London (1666)
The Killing Times, Scotland (1680's)
Earthquake Destroyed Port Royal, Jamaica (1692)
Earthquake Destroyed Lisbon, Portugal (1755)
War Between the States (1861-1865)
WWI (1914-1918)
WWII (1939-1945)
Pearl Harbor (1941)
Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski, Bombing of Dresden, Germany (1945)
Terrorist Attacks on US (2001)
Four Hurricanes Hit Florida (2004)
Indian Ocean Tsunami (2004)
 
My point was that we should not point fingers. Anytime we take the role of determining 'why' an event happened we are showing our stupidity and spiritual immaturity. All of us, every city deserves anialiation. When Ivan hit the Gulf Shores / Pensacola area after apparently deadset on Mobile many here and around the nation pointed out that Pensacoal has a large homosexual population and thus God was right in sparing the more righteous Mobile. Balderdash.

Are these disasters a result of God's judgment on sin? No doubt. Yet, let us leave the assay of that judgment to the judge.
 
The whole US could be the focus of this particular judgment. The hurricane seems to be aiming at our offshore oil refineries, most of them have shut down. If they're flooded or damaged we all could be hurting for many months to come, the stock market could be affected, etc...
 
It seems to me that extraordinary providences -- sometimes known even in the insurance world as 'acts of God' -- ought to bring about a careful humble analysis of sins, starting with our own, which may have provoked the Lord to righteous anger. That is the Puritan way. God does sometimes make his judgments known in the earth, such the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. On the other hand, we must guard ourselves against presuming too much as did the friends of Job. Who among us (as those who are born in Adam) does not deserve immediate destruction? Who among us (as those who are reborn in Christ) does not receive chastisement from the hand of the Lord? Can we not take any lesson from the calamities which befall us? The path of wisdom, I think, is to see the hand of God at work in special providences and to look first to see if our own ways need amending. God's judgments in the earth, as seen in the major calamities noted earlier, for example, I think, are part "revealed" to us and part "secret" (Deut. 29.29). They require much discernment.

I think there is much wisdom in Matthew Henry's comments on the murder of the Galileans (cf. Luke 13):

1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilæans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilæans were sinners above all the Galilæans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

We have here, I. Tidings brought to Christ of the death of some Galileans lately, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices, v. 1. Let us consider,

1. What this tragical story was. It is briefly related here, and is not met with in any of the historians of those times. Josephus indeed mentions Pilate's killing some Samaritans, who, under the conduct of a factious leader, were going in a tumultuous manner to mount Gerizim, where the Samaritans' temple was; but we can by no means allow that story to be the same with this. Some think that these Galileans were of the faction of Judas Gaulonita, called also Judas of Galilee (Acts v. 37), who disowned Cæsar's authority and refused to pay tribute to him: or perhaps these, being Galileans, were only suspected by Pilate to be of that faction, and barbarously murdered, because those who were in league with that pretender were out of his reach. The Galileans being Herod's subjects, it is probable that this outrage committed upon them by Pilate occasioned the quarrel that was between Herod and Pilate, which we read of in ch. xxiii. 12. We are not told what number they were, perhaps but a few, whom Pilate had some particular pique against (and therefore the story is overlooked by Josephus); but the circumstance remarked is that he mingled their blood with their sacrifices in the court of the temple. Though perhaps they had reason to fear Pilate's malice, yet they would not, under pretence of that fear, keep away from Jerusalem, whither the law obliged them to go up with their sacrifices. Dr Lightfoot thinks it probable that they were themselves killing their sacrifices (which was allowed, for the priest's work, they said, began with the sprinkling of the blood), and that Pilate's officers came upon them by surprise, just at the time when they were off their guard (for otherwise the Galileans were mettled men, and generally went well-armed), and mingled the blood of the sacrificers with the blood of the sacrifices, as if it had been equally acceptable to God. Neither the holiness of the place nor of the work would be a protection to them from the fury of an unjust judge, who neither feared God nor regarded man. The altar, which used to be a sanctuary and place of shelter, is now become a snare and a trap, a place of danger and slaughter.

2. Why it was related at this season to our Lord Jesus. (1.) Perhaps merely as a matter of news, which they supposed he had not heard before, and as a thing which they lamented, and believed he would do so too; for the Galileans were their countrymen. Note, Sad providences ought to be observed by us, and the knowledge of them communicated to others, that they and we may be suitably affected with them, and make a good use of them. (2.) Perhaps it was intended as a confirmation of what Christ had said in the close of the foregoing chapter, concerning the necessity of making our peace with God in time, before we be delivered to the officer, that is, to death, and so cast into prison, and then it will be too late to make agreements: "Now," say they, "Master, here is a fresh instance of some that were very suddenly delivered to the officer, that were taken away by death when they little expected it; and therefore we have all need to be ready." Note, It will be of good use to us both to explain the word of God and to enforce it upon ourselves by observing the providences of God. (3.) Perhaps they would stir him up, being himself of Galilee, and a prophet, and one that had a great interest in that country, to find out a way to revenge the death of these Galileans upon Herod. If they had any thoughts of this kind, they were quite mistaken; for Christ was now going up to Jerusalem, to be delivered into the hands of Pilate, and to have his blood, not mingled with his sacrifice, but itself made a sacrifice. (4.) Perhaps this was told Christ to deter him from going up to Jerusalem, to worship (v. 22), lest Pilate should serve him as he had served those Galileans, and should suggest against him, as probably he had insinuated against those Galileans, in vindication of his cruelty, that they came to sacrifice as Absalom did, with a seditious design, under colour of sacrificing, to raise rebellion. Now, lest Pilate, when his hand was in, should proceed further, they think it advisable that Christ should for the present keep out of the way. (5.) Christ's answer intimates that they told him this with a spiteful innuendo, that, though Pilate was unjust in killing them, yet without doubt they were secretly bad men, else God would not have permitted Pilate thus barbarously to cut them off. It was very invidious; rather than they would allow them to be martyrs, though they died sacrificing, and perhaps suffered for their devotion, they would, without any colour of proof, suppose them to be malefactors; and it may be for no other reason than because they were not of their party and denomination, differed from them, or had difference with them. This fate of theirs, which was capable not only of a favourable, but an honourable construction, shall be called a just judgment of God upon them, though they know not for what.

II. Christ's reply to this report, in which,

1. He seconded it with another story, which, like it, gave an instance of people's being taken away by sudden death. It is not long since the tower of Siloam fell, and there were eighteen persons killed and buried in the ruins of it. Dr Lightfoot's conjecture is that this tower adjoined to the pool of Siloam, which was the same with the pool of Bethesda, and that it belonged to those porches which were by the pool, in which the impotent folks lay, that waited for the stirring of the water (John v. 3), and that they who were killed were some of them, or some of those who in this pool used to purify themselves for the temple-service, for it was near the temple. Whoever they were, it was a sad story; yet such melancholy accidents we often hear of: for as the birds are caught in a snare, so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falls suddenly upon them, Eccl. ix. 12. Towers, that were built for safety, often prove men's destruction.

2. He cautioned his hearers not to make an ill use of these and similar events, nor take occasion thence to censure great sufferers, as if they were therefore to be accounted great sinners: Suppose ye that these Galileans, who were slain as they were sacrificing, were sinners above all the Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you nay, v. 2, 3. Perhaps they that told him the story of the Galileans were Jews, and were glad of any thing that furnished them with matter of reflection upon the Galileans, and therefore Christ retorted upon them the story of the men of Jerusalem, that came to an untimely end; for, with what measure of that kind we mete, it shall be measured to us again. "Now suppose ye that those eighteen who met with their death from the tower of Siloam, while perhaps they were expecting their cure from the pool of Siloam, were debtors to divine justice above all men that dwelt at Jerusalem? I tell you nay." Whether it make for us or against us, we must abide by this rule, that we cannot judge of men's sins by their sufferings in this world; for many are thrown into the furnace as gold to be purified, not as dross and chaff to be consumed. We must therefore not be harsh in our censures of those that are afflicted more than their neighbours, as Job's friends were in their censures of him, lest we condemn the generation of the righteous, Ps. lxxii. 14. If we will be judging, we have enough to do to judge ourselves; nor indeed can we know love or hatred by all that is before us, because all things come alike to all, Eccl. ix. 1, 2. And we might as justly conclude that the oppressors, and Pilate among the rest, on whose side are power and success, are the greatest saints, as that the oppressed, and those Galileans among the rest, who are all in tears and have no comforter, no, not the priests and Levites that attended the altar, are the greatest sinners. Let us, in our censures of others, do as we would be done by; for as we do we shall be done by: Judge not, that ye be not judged, Matt. vii. 1.

3. On these stories he founded a call to repentance, adding to each of them this awakening word, Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish, v. 3-5. (1.) This intimates that we all deserve to perish as much as they did, and had we been dealt with according to our sins, according to the iniquity of our holy things, our blood had been long ere this mingled with our sacrifices by the justice of God. It must moderate our censure, not only that we are sinners, but that we are as great sinners as they, have as much sin to repent of as they had to suffer for. (2.) That therefore we are all concerned to repent, to be sorry for what we have done amiss, and to do so no more. The judgments of God upon others are loud calls to us to repent. See how Christ improved every thing for the pressing of that great duty which he came not only to gain room for, and give hopes to, but to enjoin upon us--and that is, to repent. (3.) That repentance is the way to escape perishing, and it is a sure way: so iniquity shall not be your ruin, but upon no other terms. (4.) That, if we repent not, we shall certainly perish, as others have done before us. Some lay an emphasis upon the word likewise, and apply it to the destruction that was coming upon the people of the Jews, and particularly upon Jerusalem, who were destroyed by the Romans at the time of their passover, and so, like the Galileans, they had their blood mingled with their sacrifices; and many of them, both in Jerusalem and in other places, were destroyed by the fall of walls and buildings which were battered down about their ears, as those that died by the fall of the tower of Siloam. But certainly it looks further; except we repent, we shall perish eternally, as they perished out of this world. The same Jesus that calls us to repent because the kingdom of heaven is at hand, bids us repent because otherwise we shall perish; so that he has set before us life and death, good and evil, and put us to our choice. (5.) The perishing of those in their impenitency who have been most harsh and severe in judging others will be in a particular manner aggravated.
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God, Please be merciful toward us. Bring an awakening upon the soul of our Nation so that we may honour and have our boast in you. Please grant us repentance and incline our souls toward thee. I acknowledge that we don't deserve your pleasure but plead for your mercy and grace so that we may be spared and your Holiness shine full of it's glory. Thank you for the Propitiation of Christ.
We love you, even though it is most imperfect.

Randy
 
Originally posted by LawrenceU
Whilst it is true that New Orleans is a city with much sinfulness. So is every city in this nation. We should be EXTREMELY cautious in ascribing God's judgment to any natural disaster. Such talk smacks of spiritual arrogance.
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True.

But since we have the special providence of such a hurricane setting it face towards New Orleans, I hope it utterly destroys Bourbon Street and the wicked practices there (than maybe it could hop over to Las Vegas for a few minutes? Unlikely though).

Remember that Scriptures attribute the descturction of whole cities to God's power:

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

And Christ saw God's hand in small providences:

Luke 13:1-5 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 "Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."

Lawrecne - are you staying there??
 
No one doubts God's hand in the storm....but interpreting it?

In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance. I find it difficult to try to interpret God's Providence on a grand scale like this. Too many people are invovled and we have so many more wicked areas than New Orleans. Could it be a judgment? Sure. But "repent lest ye likewise perish"....that should be what we think on and tell others when they ask us. The easiest answer is "New Orleans is a wicked, wicked place"...but we are also wicked. Unbelievers outside New Orleans may believe in Karma, or something similar and will look on this Providence with self righteousness.

Interpreting the fullness of this act is not up to us, only how we respond and what we tell others the biblical response is.
 
But since we have the special providence of such a hurricane setting it face towards New Orleans, I hope it utterly destroys Bourbon Street and the wicked practices there (than maybe it could hop over to Las Vegas for a few minutes? Unlikely though).
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AMEN!!

And yes, we plan to stay. This little house is very well built and has survived a bunch of hurricanes. If, however, my midnight check reveals a jog to the east. . . well I may rethink my plans.
 
Originally posted by Craig
No one doubts God's hand in the storm....but interpreting it?

In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance. I find it difficult to try to interpret God's Providence on a grand scale like this. Too many people are invovled and we have so many more wicked areas than New Orleans. Could it be a judgment? Sure. But "repent lest ye likewise perish"....that should be what we think on and tell others when they ask us. The easiest answer is "New Orleans is a wicked, wicked place"...but we are also wicked. Unbelievers outside New Orleans may believe in Karma, or something similar and will look on this Providence with self righteousness.

Interpreting the fullness of this act is not up to us, only how we respond and what we tell others the biblical response is.
Click to expand...

:up:

This is what my answer would look like.

I remember that after the tsunami in SE Asia struck we had our annual round of family visiting and one of our elders used it as an example of the awesome works of God (Psalm 145:5) He also said, and I think wisely so, that it could very well have happened to us as well (here on the Left Coast),
 
Originally posted by poimen
Originally posted by Craig
No one doubts God's hand in the storm....but interpreting it?

In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance. I find it difficult to try to interpret God's Providence on a grand scale like this. Too many people are invovled and we have so many more wicked areas than New Orleans. Could it be a judgment? Sure. But "repent lest ye likewise perish"....that should be what we think on and tell others when they ask us. The easiest answer is "New Orleans is a wicked, wicked place"...but we are also wicked. Unbelievers outside New Orleans may believe in Karma, or something similar and will look on this Providence with self righteousness.

Interpreting the fullness of this act is not up to us, only how we respond and what we tell others the biblical response is.
Click to expand...

:up:

This is what my answer would look like.

I remember that after the tsunami in SE Asia struck we had our annual round of family visiting and one of our elders used it as an example of the awesome works of God (Psalm 145:5) He also said, and I think wisely so, that it could very well have happened to us as well (here on the Left Coast),
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:ditto:

NO has its degenerate areas, nobody doubts that. However, you can find much of the same stuff in most any metropolitan area. I think the old puritan prayer here is quite helpful,

"There but for the grace of God, go I."
 
Originally posted by joshua
Originally posted by Craig
In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance...

Interpreting the fullness of this act is not up to us, only how we respond and what we tell others the biblical response is.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I addressed when I originally posted this in defense against what I thought was a misinterpretation of what Gabe had said:

Originally posted by joshua
Romans 11:22a Note then the kindness and the severity of God...

I think this is the point Gabe is trying to bring out. It's God's kindness that leads us to repentance...yet it's his severity and wrath that is brought in the form of judgment. The great tsunamis, volcanos, earthquakes, etc. etc. are all forms of God's judgment...yet through these judgments also come repentance, remembrance, etc.
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Sorry, Josh. I try to ignore your posts :p :lol:
 
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