Three Books on "Christmas" - and a 33% off Black Friday Sale

[NaphtaliPress]

I guess Hezekiah missed the boat and should have done that instead of destroying the bronze serpent which actually had the distinction of being appointed by God, whereas these old pretended holy days of idolatry don't even have that (who has the authority to make a day special for the Lord, but the Lord?). Argue the greater to the lesser. Please do read the linked material I've posted. Also, nothing that has been raised here that has not been discussed time after time on many many threads on this forum.

Isn't the Biblical truth though that when and if we observe the holiday in its rightful meaning intended, that we have thus transformed it, taking it over for God?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Pagan origins is not really the issue; not today at least because no one has any regard to the old idol days being appropriated than we do for the fact much of the week has names of days for old idol gods. The question as you note is God's appointment, but also what we do with idolatrous things (like the bronze serpent) and as to just the general idea of appropriating the topics from the old idol calendar for a preaching schedule, whether or not cycle recapitulating ("as it were") worship is biblical? The last point i think needs a great deal more exploration, but Dr. Fesko sketches the topic in a brief article at the link. http://www.genevaopc.org/articles/means/45-why-dont-we-use-the-church-calendar.html

Isn't the Biblical truth though that when and if we observe the holiday in its rightful meaning intended, that we have thus transformed it, taking it over for God?

Brother, please forgive me if this comes off as too blunt, but do you hear the man-centeredness in that question? What reason would Christians have to "take over" a pagan holiday other than it appeals to them in their flesh? If God had wanted us to "take over" this or that, He would have instructed us to do so. As it is, Christ has established a kingdom that is advancing throughout the world and the evidence of it is that people are being baptized, disciples are being made, and they are being taught to obey all His commandments--including the reverence of the Lord's Day alone as the day for ecclesiastical worship. That's how Christ exerts His dominion over an unbelieving land; not by accommodating or assimilating pagan practices, but obliterating them in favor of His pure ordinances.

 

[Dachaser]

Paul stated to us did he not that it sepends on our own conscience and faith, as some could not eat meat dedicated to false gods, while others could without any problem?

If you and your family choose not to observe at all a Christian holiday of Christmas, that is tour grace choice, but would not the scriptures allow for others to decide to observe it, in a way that would honor the coming of Jesus into this world?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

It is not an area of indifference. Did God ask that you so celebrate Christ's birth on December 25? He didn't; so how do you know He wants you to worship Him this way? The 'Christian calendar' is an idol which Presbyterians jettisoned at the Reformation and did not observe again until the liberal decline at the end of the 19th century. It was jettisoned because it was an idol not to be treated any better than Hezekiah did the bronze serpent. Have you read any of the material I linked to?

 

[Stope]

It is not an area of indifference. Did God ask that you so celebrate Christ's birth on December 25? He didn't; so how do you know He wants you to worship Him this way?

Can the same be said about posting on the PB? or perhaps using some medium, like a harmonica, to use as an aid to worshipping Jesus?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Things that are notorious in their idolatry are not a matter of indifference. Please read the links I provided above.

 

[Stope]

Things that are notorious in their idolatry are not a matter of indifference.

---I humbly ask "is this circular reasoning?"

Please read the links I provided above

---Will do!
---FYI, I yesterday listened to the following link that someone listed here, and to be honest, I found it just a fancy of the teacher rather than scriptural... http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12302222845

 

[NaphtaliPress]

No; something either meets the def or it doesn't; or consider this, we don't do stuff of bad report or reputation because of scandal and offense. The facets of the xmas debate are many.

 

[deathtolife]

Things that are notorious in their idolatry are not a matter of indifference.

---I humbly ask "is this circular reasoning?"

Please read the links I provided above

---Will do!
---FYI, I yesterday listened to the following link that someone listed here, and to be honest, I found it just a fancy of the teacher rather than scriptural... http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12302222845

Hey Jason-

I would recommend you listen to the entire series. It is not what you may be thinking. What is it exactly that is "...just a fancy of the teacher..."? In the entire series he gives proper biblical perspective on celebration of Christmas and Christian liberty. Pastor Albert Martin handles the Word of God very well, rightly dividing the Word of truth. As one comment says there "Listening to this sermon in conjunction with part 1 is an absolute must".

 

[Clark-Tillian]

To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Frame is not under church discipline of any kind. He does have a non-Confessional view of the RPW, and has advocated for a more informal manner of public worship. If by "hot water" you mean the opprobrium of some, then, yes, he's landed in the jacuzzi a few times.

Wasn't this issue, on regulated worship, one of the areas that got Dr Frame in hot water with some?

 

[Clark-Tillian]

We have achristmas Tree in church and have kids bring in gifts to put under it to send them off to Good Samartian's Purse?

This truly heightens the sentimentality of the "season" and the folksy-sentiment is major cause of weakness in the American church. We do Operation Christmas child. BUT, it's not in the sanctuary, not part of the liturgy, the boxes are packed by the kids on Saturday, and I always stress the alleviation of poverty and the need for gratitude to the children. Never mention the "season". Better to have a child bite a chocolate bar, hold it on his tongue and remind him that somewhere some fellow Christian boy is starving to death. Not as a means of guilt-inducement, but as an instrument to encourage gratitude.

 

[Clark-Tillian]

It is not an area of indifference. Did God ask that you so celebrate Christ's birth on December 25? He didn't; so how do you know He wants you to worship Him this way?

Can the same be said about posting on the PB? or perhaps using some medium, like a harmonica, to use as an aid to worshipping Jesus?

Posting on PB is not an act of corporate, Lord's Day worship.

 

[Clark-Tillian]

It is always refreshing to have these conversations on the PB during "the most hap-happiest time of the year"! I was in Barnes and Noble the other day and the secular "carols" are even more nauseating, although, in my view, not an RPW issue--they're simply talking about snow and sleigh rides, which I'm all for. Take Jesus out of Christmas and have a grand ole winter party in your home--no problem. Bring on the eggnog and cognac.