Tim Keller on Humility

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Jerusalem Blade

Puritan Board Professor
Excerpted from the CT article, "The Advent of Humility":

Grace, Not Goodness

We are on slippery ground when we discuss humility, because religion and morality inhibit humility. It is common in the evangelical community to talk about one's worldview—a set of basic beliefs and commitments that shape the way we live in every particular. Others prefer the term "narrative identity." This is a set of answers to the questions, "Who am I? What is my life all about? What am I here for? What are the main barriers keeping me from fulfillment? How can I deal with those barriers?"

There are two basic narrative identities at work among professing Christians. The first is what I will call the moral-performance narrative identity. These are people who in their heart of hearts say, I obey; therefore I am accepted by God. The second is what I will call the grace narrative identity. This basic operating principle is, I am accepted by God through Christ; therefore I obey.

People living their lives on the basis of these two different principles may superficially look alike. They may sit right beside one another in the church pew, both striving to obey the law of God, to pray, to give money generously, to be good family members. But they are doing so out of radically different motives, in radically different spirits, resulting in radically different personal characters.

When persons living in the moral-performance narrative are criticized, they are furious or devastated because they cannot tolerate threats to their self-image of being a "good person."

But in the gospel our identity is not built on such an image, and we have the emotional ballast to handle criticism without attacking back. When people living in the moral-performance narrative base their self-worth on being hard working or theologically sound, then they must look down on those whom they perceive to be lazy or theologically weak.

But those who understand the gospel cannot possibly look down on anyone, since they were saved by sheer grace, not by their perfect doctrine or strong moral character.

The Stench of Moralism

Another mark of the moral-performance narrative is a constant need to find fault, win arguments, and prove that all opponents are not just mistaken but dishonest sellouts. However, when the gospel is deeply grasped, our need to win arguments is removed, and our language becomes gracious. We don't have to ridicule our opponents, but instead we can engage them respectfully.

People who live in the moral-performance narrative use sarcastic, self-righteous putdown humor, or have no sense of humor at all. Lewis speaks of "the unsmiling concentration upon Self, which is the mark of hell." The gospel, however, creates a gentle sense of irony. We find a lot to laugh at, starting with our own weaknesses. They don't threaten us anymore because our ultimate worth is not based on our record or performance.

Martin Luther had the basic insight that moralism is the default mode of the human heart. Even Christians who believe the gospel of grace on one level can continue to operate as if they have been saved by their works...

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Check out the whole article — there's more to it.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

Then you are missing out on a gifted preacher and communicator of the gospel. He has his faults for sure, but I've found him extremely helpful in understanding and explaining the gospel. You should listen to a sermon or two before you write him off.

And before you criticize his lack of confessional quotations, you need to understand who he is trying to reach, secular people who have no familiarity with the Confessions, or biblical Christianity for that matter. They don't even have the basic categories for understanding the Confessions. Keep the man in context and judge him fairly, as you would like to be judged.
:2cents:
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

Then you are missing out on a gifted preacher and communicator of the gospel. He has his faults for sure, but I've found him extremely helpful in understanding and explaining the gospel. You should listen to a sermon or two before you write him off.

And before you criticize his lack of confessional quotations, you need to understand who he is trying to reach, secular people who have no familiarity with the Confessions, or biblical Christianity for that matter. They don't even have the basic categories for understanding the Confessions. Keep the man in context and judge him fairly, as you would like to be judged.
:2cents:

Very well said, Patrick!
 
Thank you for posting this. We all need to be reminded of this.

I particularly like the way he put this:
When persons living in the moral-performance narrative are criticized, they are furious or devastated because they cannot tolerate threats to their self-image of being a "good person."

I tend to be pretty self-deprecating. I know that doesn't sound humble but I'm only bringing it up because I'm always a bit surprised when I run into people that are really offended when you mention that they sinned. I make a habit of repenting because I can't stand not to but I've been surprised by people that are unwilling or offended by the notion.

During a committee meeting at a previous Church, one of the ladies had dug up some really bad articles on Calvinism. She knew that one of the candidates we were discussing was a Calvinist and, without even a shred of evidence (except for an article with all the most reprehensible mischaracterizations of Calvinists) she was accusing this candidat of the most monstrous things. The thing is, she hadn't asked him any of the things she accused him of when she had the chance. She waited until he was off the phone and then claimed he didn't believe in the open offer of the Gospel and that (like every Calvinist) was secretly interested in destroying Baptist Churches.

At one point, I finally told her that she was violating the 9th Commandment and she went through the roof. She was doing the Lord's work after all and had been a Baptist for 40 years and this was the Baptist way. She was a missionary in a foreign country to boot so there's no possible way that she could have had any guile.

That experience sticks with me and reminds me why the Gospel is so important because the variants that are out there today are really feeding the mindset that people are accepted by God because they are holy. In fact, many Roman Catholics have a higher view of the need for grace these days than Evangelicals I run across.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him? What if Rick Warren came into my house and after observing things said that he endorses the way I am raising my family. Would you assume then that I was really a lousy father because Rick Warren endorsed me?

Are you also assuming that Keller is unconfessional by stating you can never recall him quoting anything from the Westminster Confession? I would say that is a pretty large assumption.

I understand Keller isn't a fan fave of everyone on here, but to pass judgment on the man and his ministry without knowing the facts and based upon an endorsement or two seems like the wrong thing to do.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him? What if Rick Warren came into my house and after observing things said that he endorses the way I am raising my family. Would you assume then that I was really a lousy father because Rick Warren endorsed me?

Are you also assuming that Keller is unconfessional by stating you can never recall him quoting anything from the Westminster Confession? I would say that is a pretty large assumption.

I understand Keller isn't a fan fave of everyone on here, but to pass judgment on the man and his ministry without knowing the facts and based upon an endorsement or two seems like the wrong thing to do.

When I picked up his "Reason for God" i was troubled by the Warren/Graham endorsements, and if I hadn't already listened to a few hours of his lectures becoming familiar with him, I wouldn't have purchased the book for that reason (probably). I would be interested to know the reasoning behind such endorsements, as it seems J.I. Packer is quick to sign, why not go in that direction? Perhaps, as was stated, it has something to do with his cultural context.

I have found Keller very insightful.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

I won't re-iterate what others have said about this already, but I will add that the Rick Warren/Billy Graham endorsements are probably more a function of the publisher wanting to get notable endorsements than anything else. And to reject a book simply because Warren and Graham endorse it is absurd.

Also, The Reason for God is aimed at secularist intellectuals and skeptics, not at believers. Most of those people have at least heard of C.S. Lewis, but few if any have heard of the Confessions. Lewis was no theologian, but he was a solid apologist, hence quoting him in an apologetics book is appropriate. If you listen to Keller's sermons, as I do on a weekly basis as a Redeemer member, you will find he quotes Edwards, Augustine, Owen, and to a lesser extent Calvin as much as anyone. I personally believe he is one of the top 3 expository teachers in America today.

Finally, I don't agree with Keller on hell either, particularly his concept of it being a "door locked from within." But I agree with 90% of what he says, and all of the essentials. And I disagree with all of the great theologians on at least one minor thing. To reject him entirely because of secondary issues is your loss....
 
There is no need to dogpile Carson. Keller's ministry has a number of problems, and there should be no reason to act as if they do not exist. The fact that he is enthusiastic about C.S. Lewis and the grace of the Gospel should not then become a shield for some of his shoddier interpretive practices (which then, unfortunately hold great sway in the PCA), nor cause some of the ecclesiastical and confessional disregard that goes on at Redeemer to be deemed unimportant.

That being said, Keller does have some good things to say on occasion.
 
There is no need to dogpile Carson. Keller's ministry has a number of problems, and there should be no reason to act as if they do not exist. The fact that he is enthusiastic about C.S. Lewis and the grace of the Gospel should not then become a shield for some of his shoddier interpretive practices (which then, unfortunately hold great sway in the PCA), nor cause some of the ecclesiastical and confessional disregard that goes on at Redeemer to be deemed unimportant.

That being said, Keller does have some good things to say on occasion.

Adam,

I don't think it was anyone's intention to "dogpile" Carson. And no one has posted and acted as if Keller didn't have his problems. You and I have our problems as well. Let's not forget that.

What I found troubling was the reason why some pass judgment on Keller without really knowing how he stands on key issues. You don't have to agree with him on everything, but to write him off because of a few endorsements and a lack of quoting the Confessions in one book is silly (Mason pointed out why he did this in a post above).

I guess it's those "occasions" when Keller says some good things that keeps me listening and reading. I should hope people could say the same about my ministry.

Blessings.
 
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God has given him a high-profile pulpit. With that comes a great responsibility. I would hope Keller recognizes that what is beneficial for his congregation {exposing them to Reformed theology, Edwards, etc.} is likewise beneficial for the rest of the "audiences" he wishes to reach.
 
And before you criticize his lack of confessional quotations, you need to understand who he is trying to reach, secular people who have no familiarity with the Confessions, or biblical Christianity for that matter. They don't even have the basic categories for understanding the Confessions. Keep the man in context and judge him fairly, as you would like to be judged.

Yes, I would hope that someone would judge me fairly. I am not trying to judge him unfairly. As far as keeping him the context of “reaching the unbelievers” I think I grasp the context. Here is an answer that Keller gave to Anthony Sacramone, managing editor of First Things. When asked about his church.

“We’re trying to speak in a way that doesn’t confuse or turn off nonbelievers.”

It seams to me that the premise is building the “Church” around nonbelievers. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have been involved with street ministry and door to door evangelism in my community for over ten years, and I can tell you it doesn’t take much to confuse or turn off a non believing Christ hater. Just simply tell them that Jesus is the only way to salvation is enough to get you thrown of the front porch.
 
And before you criticize his lack of confessional quotations, you need to understand who he is trying to reach, secular people who have no familiarity with the Confessions, or biblical Christianity for that matter. They don't even have the basic categories for understanding the Confessions. Keep the man in context and judge him fairly, as you would like to be judged.

Yes, I would hope that someone would judge me fairly. I am not trying to judge him unfairly. As far as keeping him the context of “reaching the unbelievers” I think I grasp the context. Here is an answer that Keller gave to Anthony Sacramone, managing editor of First Things. When asked about his church.

“We’re trying to speak in a way that doesn’t confuse or turn off nonbelievers.”

It seams to me that the premise is building the “Church” around nonbelievers. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have been involved with street ministry and door to door evangelism in my community for over ten years, and I can tell you it doesn’t take much to confuse or turn off a non believing Christ hater. Just simply tell them that Jesus is the only way to salvation is enough to get you thrown of the front porch.

If you do not want to judge him unfairly, then read his book on evangelism (the Reason for God) or his new book on the Prodigal God, then say what you will about it. I am not sure how you can be fair, by rejecting any position/book of his without reading it.

CT
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him? What if Rick Warren came into my house and after observing things said that he endorses the way I am raising my family. Would you assume then that I was really a lousy father because Rick Warren endorsed me?

Are you also assuming that Keller is unconfessional by stating you can never recall him quoting anything from the Westminster Confession? I would say that is a pretty large assumption.

I understand Keller isn't a fan fave of everyone on here, but to pass judgment on the man and his ministry without knowing the facts and based upon an endorsement or two seems like the wrong thing to do.

While ducking the crossfire, I have no dog in this hunt, maybe CarsonLAllen's just saying there is much material available that a Christian could / ought spend his time on other than Keller...

...such as the Puritans. :pilgrim: :)
 
Barnpreacher

I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him?

I have never heard him preach, but I have read articles and interviews in magazines. I have also had conversations with a Godly brother who has read his book. A brother that I love and trust.

. You don't have to agree with him on everything, but to write him off because of a few endorsements and a lack of quoting the Confessions in one book is silly (Mason pointed out why he did this in a post above).

If you want to JUDGE me as being silly, so be it. Your telling me that I can't make a discernment based on an endorsement by Rick Waren or Billy Graham. I wonder if Dr. McMahon would let them endorse one of his books.

Christian Trader

If you do not want to judge him unfairly, then read his book on evangelism (the Reason for God) or his new book on the Prodigal God, then say what you will about it. I am not sure how you can be fair, by rejecting any position/book of his without reading it.

I am not writing a critique of his books. I simply stated that I don't think he is aas confessional as Pipa, which I have heard from P.C.A. Pastors myself. I can't make a judgment based on his quote“We’re trying to speak in a way that doesn’t confuse or turn off nonbelievers.”

Do I have to read Arminius’s entire three volumes before I judge him fairly?

Mangum That is what I was trying to communicate.
 
I don't know much about Keller, but I dont' care to. I know that when it comes to "Humility" the best book I have read is "Humility" by C.J. Mahaney.

Tim's latest book "The Prodigal God" is endorsed by Billy Graham and Rick Waren. This should shoot a red flag up in the mind of any truly reformed Christian.

I just read an article on Hell from Keller's web site. He quotes from C.S. Lewis in a religious fashion as he does all through his "Reason for God" book. I don't recall him quoting ANYTHING FROM THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION. I think the church should stick with confessions that have stood the test of time. I would listen to Joye Pipa or the "Wild Boar Broadcast" a thousand times over before I lent my ear to one Keller message.

I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him? What if Rick Warren came into my house and after observing things said that he endorses the way I am raising my family. Would you assume then that I was really a lousy father because Rick Warren endorsed me?

Are you also assuming that Keller is unconfessional by stating you can never recall him quoting anything from the Westminster Confession? I would say that is a pretty large assumption.

I understand Keller isn't a fan fave of everyone on here, but to pass judgment on the man and his ministry without knowing the facts and based upon an endorsement or two seems like the wrong thing to do.

While ducking the crossfire, I have no dog in this hunt, maybe CarsonLAllen's just saying there is much material available that a Christian could / ought spend his time on other than Keller...

...such as the Puritans. :pilgrim: :)

If that was the case, then why recommend Mahaney on humility?

Is this not akin to saying avoid Baxter on anything because of the issues with his view of Justification?

CT
 
I find this post troubling. You admit that you have never "lent your ear to one Keller message" then how can you pass judgment on him? What if Rick Warren came into my house and after observing things said that he endorses the way I am raising my family. Would you assume then that I was really a lousy father because Rick Warren endorsed me?

Are you also assuming that Keller is unconfessional by stating you can never recall him quoting anything from the Westminster Confession? I would say that is a pretty large assumption.

I understand Keller isn't a fan fave of everyone on here, but to pass judgment on the man and his ministry without knowing the facts and based upon an endorsement or two seems like the wrong thing to do.

While ducking the crossfire, I have no dog in this hunt, maybe CarsonLAllen's just saying there is much material available that a Christian could / ought spend his time on other than Keller...

...such as the Puritans. :pilgrim: :)

If that was the case, then why recommend Mahaney on humility?

Is this not akin to saying avoid Baxter on anything because of the issues with his view of Justification?

CT

If that was the case, then why recommend Mahaney on humility?
:scratch: Because he thinks a Mahaney is better than a Keller. I simply suggested the Puritans would be better and more profitable reading than one like Keller.
 
And before you criticize his lack of confessional quotations, you need to understand who he is trying to reach, secular people who have no familiarity with the Confessions, or biblical Christianity for that matter. They don't even have the basic categories for understanding the Confessions. Keep the man in context and judge him fairly, as you would like to be judged.

Yes, I would hope that someone would judge me fairly. I am not trying to judge him unfairly. As far as keeping him the context of “reaching the unbelievers” I think I grasp the context. Here is an answer that Keller gave to Anthony Sacramone, managing editor of First Things. When asked about his church.

“We’re trying to speak in a way that doesn’t confuse or turn off nonbelievers.”

It seams to me that the premise is building the “Church” around nonbelievers. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have been involved with street ministry and door to door evangelism in my community for over ten years, and I can tell you it doesn’t take much to confuse or turn off a non believing Christ hater. Just simply tell them that Jesus is the only way to salvation is enough to get you thrown of the front porch.

I don't think he is building the Church around unbelievers. I think he is mission minded. If you are not making a concerted effort to reach out to unbelievers in a language they can understand (just like any foreign missionary), then all you will be doing is preaching to the Reformed choir, and alienating the very people you are trying to reach. The true offensiveness of the gospel will not hit them unless we speak in their language. So we must do our part to show the beauty and attractiveness of Christ in terms unbelievers can understand. I think Keller does a great job at this.

Once you get them to understand the basic categories of salvation, then you can introduce them to the more advanced teachings in our Confessions (as discipleship). There's a reason only office bearers are required to subscribe to the Confessions.

Like I said, he has his faults in other areas, but there is alot we can learn from his ability to show the emptiness of the secular worldview, and to explain the gospel in very concrete understandable terms. I'm a full subscriptionist when it comes to our Confessions, and all of that doctrine is the foundation for everything I try to say, but I'm not going to use that technical language in evangelism or apologetics with people unfamiliar with Christianity.
:2cents:
 
If you want to JUDGE me as being silly, so be it. Your telling me that I can't make a discernment based on an endorsement by Rick Waren or Billy Graham. I wonder if Dr. McMahon would let them endorse one of his books.

I wasn't trying to judge you, brother. I wasn't calling you silly, just your statement. Silly was a poor choice of words. I apologize for offending you. I didn't mean to tell you that you couldn't make a discernment based on an endorsement. I just think you're really missing out on a gifted teacher by these discernments.

These kind of threads go nowhere fast because it usually pits one side who has found a contemporary minister helpful against those who haven't found him so helpful. Neither side is going to budge, and it usually winds up getting the thread off topic from the OP. To this I have contributed enough and I apologize to brother. Steve for my part in the distraction from his OP.

Blessings!
 
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