Ianterrell
Puritan Board Sophomore
There is no real universal view held by Pentecostals/Charismatics/Third-Wavers on Depravity, however many within the Pentecostal camp have a severely problematic view on native depravity. Many for example believe that once we are filled with Holy Spirit we are freed from our depravity in full. Any willful decision to sin is hardly affected by internal corruption. I debated for hours this evening with one such believer. Let me try to line up some of the assertions that he made.
1) Man has no natural inclination towards sin. We exist as morally upright creatures until we commit our first act of sin, at which point we become soiled. Man is neither guilty of Adam's sin, not is he affected by it. Man in his normal state can live a sinless life without the aid of Christ!
2)There could be no natural moral difference between Christ and ourselves or that would represent an unfairness on God's part. We must be able to keep the law perfectly or else God's statement,"This is not to hard for you" to the Israelites becomes void.
(My arguement at this point is not that we cannot keep the law, but that we willfuly do not do so. but I digress...)
3)Christ had selfish desires represented in his prayer to Gethsemene. When he prayed take this cup from me, that was his flesh speaking. When he prayed "not my will but they will be done" it was the spirit speaking. He says that his praying that God would take his cup from him would be sinful without the addition of but not my will by thy will be done?
This individual seems particularly skeptical of the idea of their being native corruption, but then contradicts himself with his view of sanctification. In sanctification Christ makes us free from depravity all together its gone. And yet this same individual uses empty rhetoric about killing the old man. Apparently he has some sense of truth but in articulation it comes out a jumbled inconsistent mess. He simply cannot think consistently in terms of theology he is working with a buch of marred fixtures.
In debating with such a fellow, what would you recommend. I am thinking I should write to him in lengthy responses so that all the pieces of the biblical Doctrine of Man, and Doctrine of Salvation can be viewed relating in harmony.
1) Man has no natural inclination towards sin. We exist as morally upright creatures until we commit our first act of sin, at which point we become soiled. Man is neither guilty of Adam's sin, not is he affected by it. Man in his normal state can live a sinless life without the aid of Christ!
2)There could be no natural moral difference between Christ and ourselves or that would represent an unfairness on God's part. We must be able to keep the law perfectly or else God's statement,"This is not to hard for you" to the Israelites becomes void.
(My arguement at this point is not that we cannot keep the law, but that we willfuly do not do so. but I digress...)
3)Christ had selfish desires represented in his prayer to Gethsemene. When he prayed take this cup from me, that was his flesh speaking. When he prayed "not my will but they will be done" it was the spirit speaking. He says that his praying that God would take his cup from him would be sinful without the addition of but not my will by thy will be done?
This individual seems particularly skeptical of the idea of their being native corruption, but then contradicts himself with his view of sanctification. In sanctification Christ makes us free from depravity all together its gone. And yet this same individual uses empty rhetoric about killing the old man. Apparently he has some sense of truth but in articulation it comes out a jumbled inconsistent mess. He simply cannot think consistently in terms of theology he is working with a buch of marred fixtures.
In debating with such a fellow, what would you recommend. I am thinking I should write to him in lengthy responses so that all the pieces of the biblical Doctrine of Man, and Doctrine of Salvation can be viewed relating in harmony.
