To homeschool OR not to Homeschool? What curriculum to use and How MUCH will is cost?

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I will return to the board probably Friday

Mr. Jolley,
When you do return to the board, know that I am grateful for your response.
God Bless,
Jess

---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

I don't believe the prevailing assumption here is that the standards themselves are hostile to the Word of God. Rather, the assumption is that an educational environment that is not explicitly founded upon and permeated by God's Word will be, in effect, hostile to that Word, whether implicitly or explicitly.

:agree:

---------- Post added at 11:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------

I think it is the job of parents to give the level of care that is superior to that of the non-believer, which is to go beyond the standards of a secular education, so that children can be better prepared for life in the secular world and the church.

I couldn't agree more!
 
I don't believe the prevailing assumption here is that the standards themselves are hostile to the Word of God. Rather, the assumption is that an educational environment that is not explicitly founded upon and permeated by God's Word will be, in effect, hostile to that Word, whether implicitly or explicitly.

I see that 'ditto' and raise you four dittoes and call the hand that implies otherwise.
 
I hsed my daughter from 6th through 12th grade using a modified classical approach and curriculum I put together myself. Her senior year was the most expensive, about $1,700, but that included an on-line course through The Potter's School, voice lessons, and riding lessons in addition to regular curriculum. It WAS a lot of work, but well worth it.

Now she is a mom with four children and is in her second year of hsing her soon to be 6yo daughter with her 4yo son sitting in on a casual basis. She has been using My Father's World with truly impressive results and intends to use it again next year for her dd's 2nd grade year with a bit of tweaking in the language arts and science departments. My Father's World is very affordable, for the most part literature based, and hands on, which her children love.
 
I want to address your question of how much will it cost. Educating a child who is under age 10 doesn't need to cost very much at all. You will need to buy a good intensive phonics curriculum, which can cost $50-$100 (I wouldn't spend any more than that). Of course, there is plenty of curriculum which you COULD buy, but you don't need to. Use the library, use the internet, buy used books (there is a strong used homeschooling book market). Here is an article we wrote which might be helpful.
 
I want to address your question of how much will it cost. Educating a child who is under age 10 doesn't need to cost very much at all. You will need to buy a good intensive phonics curriculum, which can cost $50-$100 (I wouldn't spend any more than that). Of course, there is plenty of curriculum which you COULD buy, but you don't need to. Use the library, use the internet, buy used books (there is a strong used homeschooling book market). Here is an article we wrote which might be helpful.

A little off-topic, but could you recommend a good phonics program, please?
 
We live in two kingdoms, citizens of both; therefore what is binding on that school teacher to teach should and must also be binding upon you because that is the standards issued by the state for what your child should be able to know and do.

I agree!!
 
I think it is the job of parents to give the level of care that is superior to that of the non-believer, which is to go beyond the standards of a secular education, so that children can be better prepared for life in the secular world and the church. Therefore children will learn the standards of a secular education in the local cultural or political environment that they live, plus the rule of faith from scripture.

The first being that they have more expertise with teaching children then you do. Secondly, there is the goal in mind to prepare the majority of them in college; which is one of the goaling aspects of the standards. Third, so that students will be well equipped as thinking individuals to be profitable members of society, which in part would also make them good citizens. Fourth, so that nothing can hinder the student from that desired success; so that they are able to run that business or work at that mechanics shop, or to follow any career path through a university setting, or even as an active member of the military. A good teacher knows the answer to the question on why you need to learn this or that.

If all you teach as a homeschooler is the word of God the answer is yes, it is unlawful. Children need more then just scripture to live in a world of common grace. They need to know their history, they need to know how to problem solve, not just repeat a catechism question or have a portion of scripture memorized. In the biology class that I taught if on an exam someone said a bat is a bird (Lev. 11:13-19) instead of a mammal I would mark them wrong. They need to know how to interact in this fallen world and scripture alone is not efficient. Scipture will not teach you how to be a plumber, it is not going to teach you to solve for an unknown in an equation, it will not teach you why the American Revolution took place, or about electricity. What scripture teaches is all we need to know in matters of faith and the practice of that faith through the law and the gospel. Children need to learn how to enact and engage the world in which they live in an educated fashion. We are not to purposely allow for ourselves as a faith to be ignorant of the outside world, particularly if we are to share the hope that is within us. Since this is the case then we should to the best of our ability learn and teach literature/reading, writing, math, science, logic, history, and so on. If all one does is just talk about scripture and not the various disciplines and categories, with the difference of separation of categories between them at the appropriate times then one is not preparing their child for the world, which in part the responsibility of parents, not just teaching the faith. Therefore you are not just going against the State, but also by God in his common grace. I have seen what happens when children are not taught appropriately by means of methodology or by being taught false information, they get discouraged in the subject, break down, and refused to learn. Misinformation is the bain of education and can do more harm then good, resulting possibly in denying the faith, which I have seen from people who grew up in the church and after the second semester of college leave the faith. Therefore one has to be extremely careful in how one teaches and what you teach has consequences; it does not matter if it is in the classroom or in a home, there are always consequences which is why careful treading must be done in regards to various subjects. And if one is careful and teaches appropriately then there should be no fear for the child, for God has been glorified by what was taught and one can enjoy the truthfulness and riches of God’s blessing through imparted knowledge with faith in the gospel.

In Romans 13, we are called to be good citizens and remember that pagan governing authority that Paul was talking about was appointed by God. We are to obey these authorities and not promote ignorant foolish behavior based on our Christian liberty and instead we are called to honor such authorities. We see this in 1 Peter 2:13-17 and Titus 3:1. Part of being good citizens is obeying the laws that the State as issued, unless the State asks you to sin such as denying that Christ came in the flesh and is God. But that not what going on here in regards to education. If the state requires that a child should receive so much instruction then that child should receive that instruction as being good citizens; in fact go further then the bare boned standards of the state such as teaching sowing or cooking (what I call applied chemistry) which can show real life applications of what is taught in school without the hindrance of keeping your eye on 34 more young ones at the same time. This is a good work and one that the state would not reject you for it.

There is an assumption being applied here and that is that the standards are hostile against the Word of God. They are only hostile if you make them hostile, they are so bared boned in content and objective it almost impossible to be hostile to them unless you cannot perform the basic objective. If you cannot perform the basic objective then you need to get someone who can. If you do not understand basic algebra then when your child gets to that point what will you do? If you do not know something then pass that responsibility on to someone else or teach yourself quickly. If you cannot teach yourself a particular subject then you have no business to teach your child that, and in fact can do more harm then good. Therefore one must prepare ahead time so that they are able to teach their children the basics as a good foundation and be able to build upon on that foundation. Homeschooling you child is a wisdom issue, if you can do it then please do it, but let me warn you it may require large amount of work and time. I think to some degree we have romanticized homeschooling and placed homeschooling as a new law for Christians to keep if they are in the faith. You do have options and I think the standards work best as a guide and a benchmark to where your child is at, that is really what they were originally designed for. Do not be afraid to ask for help with professional teachers in your church for ideas or lesson plan approaches. I would also recommend getting your husband involved as well, because it would not be just your activity alone. Have him teach were you are weak and vise versa. The standards are not that difficult to keep and could be judged by some kind of physical means, such as an oral test or written examination. Education should be presented in a structural and disciplined process, which the standards assist with.

The WLC is not speaking of a case of abuse against a child, and they are not going to be sold into slavery or used as a slave by the State. Therefore this is a misapplication of man-stealing. Children are not possessions that we own, but instead entrusted to us by God to be nurtured. If non-Christians or the state desire for the good of children then why shouldn’t we? We should and we must practice that in wisdom.

Right on!!

---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

Too often, though, the state seeks to overstep its bounds,

Name one. And don't use Evolution. Granted Evolution is a ridiculous requirement required by many states, however, either way a child must have some knowledge of the theory. Even a christian child will one day grow up and be faced with evolution in a secular university. And when that day arises if he or she has no knowledge of the subject he or she will be made to be the fool.
 
Name one. And don't use Evolution. Granted Evolution is a ridiculous requirement required by many states, however, either way a child must have some knowledge of the theory. Even a christian child will one day grow up and be faced with evolution in a secular university. And when that day arises if he or she has no knowledge of the subject he or she will be made to be the fool.

Sex ed for one. Worldly morals do not match God's standards.
 
Bill & David, please listen to Dr. Morecraft's sermon.

............Please!
 
Name one. And don't use Evolution. Granted Evolution is a ridiculous requirement required by many states, however, either way a child must have some knowledge of the theory. Even a christian child will one day grow up and be faced with evolution in a secular university. And when that day arises if he or she has no knowledge of the subject he or she will be made to be the fool.

You're missing the point. When I said that the state oversteps its bounds, I was not limiting that statement to education. We live in a society in which the state has rejected God and set itself up as the supreme authority to which we citizens owe ultimate fealty in all areas of life.

The problem, again, with state education is not that it has poor standards (some are relatively good, some are bad, some are ridiculous, some are scary), but that it assumes that our children belong to the state more than to God or to their parents, and are to be educated in the way that best benefits the state rather than in the way that best glorifies God. I don't have to "name one," nor can I--every facet of education is faulty if Christ is not magnified in it.

Bill and David, you are missing the forest for the trees, arguing about minutiae of educational standards when the real problem is that the entire apparatus of state education is misdirected. Yes, our children should be well-educated. Yes, they need to be exposed to the theory of evolution and other faulty teachings of men so that they will be prepared to interact with and refute these as adults. Yes, there should even be meaningful standards, but to place the power to establish and enforce those standards into the hands of the state is to grant unto the state a role and a power which God did not give it. We believe that to subject our children to an educational environment in which Christ is not magnified to be an abdication of our God-given responsibilities as parents.

God owns our children, not us, and certainly not the state, and God demands that our children be taught His ways "when you lie down, and when you rise up;" that they be reared "in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." The state educational standards are flawed not because they are all bad, but because in them God is ignored, and the state becomes a usurper of His authority. I am thankful that we still live in a society where the state has not assumed the power to force us to sacrifice our children to Molech by sending them to public schools. God forbid that we should ever be robbed of this right.

Bill & David, please listen to Dr. Morecraft's sermon.

............Please!

You really should listen to it.
 
There needs to be accountability

? But who watches the guardians? Do you have any idea how ironic that is coming from a public school teacher, especially given that in every single study ever done homeschoolers do better in reading, science and math? You've been given more money and resources than at any time in the history of mankind, and the US public school system is an international joke.
 
The bottom line is, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge" (Prov. 1:7). Undertaking to teach a child knowledge that is not founded in and understood in light of the fear of the LORD, is building on sand and only produces fools. Time has proven it and will prove it again. Lord, have mercy on us.
 
? But who watches the guardians? Do you have any idea how ironic that is coming from a public school teacher, especially given that in every single study ever done homeschoolers do better in reading, science and math? You've been given more money and resources than at any time in the history of mankind, and the US public school system is an international joke.

Tim, these are important points, not to be discounted. And the result should be spectacular, but it is simply shameful. But the genesis of guardian's system is the real kicker. When the guardians openly profess to be atheists, we know for fact that the end game is self-seeking control of the issue of your loins. We are the appointed guardians, as we profess Christ, and we have been given authority by God to raise them as He has laid out. Diversion from that is indeed punishable by law, but the foundation remains inassailable. Nowhere in this covenant do I see any place for Rome to train my child's mind. It is not there, no matter how twisted the logic.
 
Two-thumbs up for Alpha-Phonics. Used the same copy for all four kids. Wonderfully simple and elegant to use. I have my copy(held together with masking tape!) in our 'memory' chest. I hope to pass it on, or use it with a grand-child, someday.
 
I've been looking at phonics programs lately due to the fact that my eldest "couldn't" learn to read using the phonics programs I tried. I've since learned through a little bit of study that the best phonics porgrams are those like Teach your children to read in 100 Lessons or The Writing Road to Reading which teach phonics without pictures. If you have a very visual child, the pictures used in most phonics programs out there confuse them.

---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

By the way, those programs are very inexpensive.
 
A hearty, 'AMEN!' to the phonics programs without pictures. The pictures make it very tough for visual learners and really do nothing to help others. They were the first step in dumbing down curricula according to a professor I had back in the Dark Ages.
 
Another thumbs up for Alpha-phonics. I am the oldest and was the first to learn how to read. My parents made the mistake of teaching me to sight read, then realized their mistake, and used Alpha-phonics with me. I HATED having to sound out words, because I could already read the children's books we already had by sight. So, definitely start with phonics. Obviously, your kid is goign to do some sight-reading anyway, but learning how the words are built and how to sound them out is really necessary, I think.
 
Sounding out words is soooo important to language processing in the brain. If you want to combat potential learning disabilities early you would do well to use a good phonics program. Speech therapy is all about undoing the huge mistake in education of dropping phonics and moving to picture-based reading.
 
A little off-topic, but could you recommend a good phonics program, please?

Jess, We've been using Explode the Code for phonics- my Kindergartener just finished book 1. We did Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons to start with, then around lesson 70 switched over to Bob Books (just because dd didn't like reading the long passages from the 100 lessons book). Then we've been doing the Explode the Code along with the Sonlight grade 1 readers. Its pretty cheap - about $6-8 a book (they're consumable workbooks) on Amazon and most homeschool supply places. They also have a beginner series for teacher letter sounds - Get Ready for the Code - but I haven't tried that. I liked the focus on letter sounds and blending that 100 lessons had. I'm just starting my 4 year old with 100 Lessons, too. I've run into a lot of people online who have used the 100 Lessons --> Bob Books ---> Explode the Code with easy readers progression. My 6 year old is reading at a second grade level now, so its working pretty well for us so far.
 
Another vote for "Teach Your Child To Read in 100 Easy Lessons." I've known a lot of people who have used this book with success. I only did the first few lessons with my oldest, but it was enough for him to get the concept of blending letter sounds together, which is something he hadn't understood prior to that. The only reason I didn't continue with the book is that he took off on his own at that point, so I guess you would say he is a partially self-taught reader. He is now six and will read pretty much anything.
 
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