Transcription Request

Discussion in 'Puritan Literature' started by Logan, Mar 3, 2016.

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  1. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    I'm soliciting help in transcribing Gillespie's "Aaron's Rod Blossoming", but only if anyone is interested.

    I've worked on typing up the first, second, and about half of the third chapter. Probably the best change I've done (in my opinion) is to move lots of the in-line references to footnotes while still remaining faithful to the original wording. As evidenced at the beginning of chapter three, this produces a text that is much easier to read. Additionally, extended quotations are being changed to block quotes, and scripture references "modernized" (though interestingly, this puts them back how they essentially were in the 17th century edition rather than the 19th).

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/25y6hzwn8w4bo14/AaronsRod.pdf?dl=0

    However, I'm simply not going to be able to fast enough by myself to provide this for the book club. In the past I've seen some interest in volunteering for transcribing various works, would anyone be interested in that here? Even if it is only a chapter or a few pages. You'd receive a full copy of the completed PDF.

    If so, please post the chapter you'll take, and type it up in plain text. I can do all the formatting.

    And if not, then I'll keep at it as quickly as I can :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  2. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I would take the EEBO text if it is available and doc compare it as you go to make sure you don't have Missing Text. Unless things changed my experience with the Armoury text of English Popish Ceremonies almost assures that there are at least some issues with the 19th century text of Aaron's Rod.
     
  3. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks, that's good to know. Pastor Winzer has said that he intends to do something of the sort in comparing the two.
     
  4. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    I'll take a shot at Chapter 7 of Book 1. Looks like it doesn't have margin notes. Let's see how it goes.

    Would you prefer misspellings to match the original (a true transcription) or would you like spellings made consistent to modernized form? (Example 'himselfe') And how do you want the Greek handled - I'm not sure if that can be done in a .txt file.
     
  5. MW

    MW Puritan Board Doctor

    Yes, so far so good. Pdfs of both the 1646 and 1844 editions are available at archive.org. There are Hebrew errata in the 1844 ed.

    I'm not altering the text apart from adding translations in brackets and footnotes which might be needed for explanation. I'm through the contents and preface, and hoping to start on our first reading section today. Putting Hebrew and Greek in unicode slows down the process. But 5 pages a day is looking likely.
     
  6. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    So are you doing some kind of a transcription then? To prevent us duplicating work, would you like the text files of what I've done so far (Book 1, Chapters 1, 2, and part of 3)?
     
  7. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    I'm going off the 19th century edition, so the spelling should already be modernized. And yes, for the Greek I'm just putting in "[greek placeholder]" for now, so I can go back and add that in later, which will be much more time-consuming. Ditto the Hebrew. Thanks! That would be a great help.
     
  8. MW

    MW Puritan Board Doctor

    Thanks, Logan, for the kind offer, but it is easier for me to have the raw OCRed text and work from there. The aim is simply to duplicate the original as closely as possible. Is that "transcription?"
     
  9. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Sure, that makes sense. So in my case the goal is to produce something that would be easily readable and publishable for modern readers, while remaining faithful to the original wording (if not the original spelling, typography, and reference system). So it would be better to continue in parallel then.

    I'm curious, what would be the final product of what you are producing? A web page? A clean form of what is on EEBO? If you do come across any major discrepancies between the 1646 and 1844 editions, then please do let me know. I'm using mainly the 1844 with occasional references to the 1646, and so far they've been very comparable.
     
  10. MW

    MW Puritan Board Doctor

    Will do. Chris found discrepancies working on EPC, but so far the Armoury edition of Aaron's Rod has been precise.

    I'm not sure what the end goal is. I have numerous texts I've worked on over the years but have no idea what to do with them. Maybe they will eventually go on a web site. After PAP I'm not inclined to go back into full-on publishing, but POD opens a possibility if I can get technical again.
     
  11. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    I was working from an older edition I found online, so I'll modernize the spelling.
     
  12. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    If you prefer that then it's fine. I just wanted to make sure you were aware that the 19th century edition is also online.
     
  13. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    I may look for it tomorrow. I haven't had any problems with anything but the Greek. I wasn't a frat boy in college, and the language requirements were what the Lord used to tell me I wasn't called to the cloth.

    I figure anything I do will need cleanup from you; just trying to minimize what you have to do.
     
  14. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Me neither, but I have a strong enough of a math background to be able to identify the letters :)
    We'll deal with it later.

    Here is a link to the 1844 PDF, which I think is nicer to work from since they've already identified odd words and properly spelled them for me.
    https://archive.org/details/aaronsrodblosso01gillgoog

    I finished through pg 26, so that's the first week's reading done. It's taking me anywhere between 15 and 30 minutes per page (with formatting), depending on the complexity. Average of 20. I might go ahead and put in placeholders for the extensive Latin quotations as well, since those are slowing me down and have limited value for this immediate purpose.
     
  15. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    Thanks for the link. I had looked at the Google version, and found it easier to read the older version (with its older characters) than the newer version on Google. This one may speed me up a bit. You are still going to have to do some formatting on what I send you to match what you are doing. And I've noted an arcane word that you may or may not want to replace with something modern.

    Want to PM me an email to send it to when I finish?
     
  16. Jo_Was

    Jo_Was Puritan Board Freshman

    Hello,

    I'd definitely be willing to have a crack at it. I have plenty of time and ability (I am a homemaker who does freelance writing/editing on the side). I'll start with whatever portion you'd like to give me first and go from there. :)
     
  17. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you for the offer, that would be great! I'll send you a PM with some information soon.
     
  18. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Added the Greek to the first four chapters, which I think is fairly straightforward now, so I'll just continue doing that as I go. I tried reading them from the old 1646 edition and that's nearly impossible for me, with my limited knowledge of Greek.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/25y6hzwn8w4bo14/AaronsRod.pdf?dl=0

    Edward helped type up Chapter 7 and I'm into Chapter 9 (pg 43) now so we're on our way to keeping up with the book club I think.

    Chris, any tips on distinguishing between the oe and ae ligatures when they are in italics? Logically knowing some of the English words that come from that Latin root, I think most of them are ae but I really can't tell on some of the Latin quotations.

    The Hebrew is really going to be tough. If most of the errata in both editions is wrong Hebrew letters (which look nearly identical to me), then no way I'm going to get everything perfect.
     
  19. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    The ae should be narrower and the o slammed up against the e should still seem more like an o; that is if the compositer didn't make a mistake. From what Matthew has said the editing may have been better on 19th century Aaron's Rod than EPC, I would check the original on the Hebrew and Greek. I agree the Hebrew will be tough; on known citations you simply may have to go with taking it from the Hebrew text being cited. On the Greek it is essential to have in mind the old ligatures and abbreviations for Greek; these charts have been commended here before. http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/72681-Help-with-Old-Greek-Font?p=929022#post929022
    see others on this Google search.

    Also, somethings are simply not clear until you go to the source being cited.
     
  20. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you, that is helpful. I did find a definite italicized oe in the book and while it is close to an ae, they are distinguishable (the ae has a little tail near the top).

    That list of Greek ligatures is very helpful, thank you.
     
  21. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Edward typed up another chapter and I got a few so now Chapters 1--13 of Book 1 are done (just its appendix left), and I've added the Hebrew, Greek, and all Latin so except for proofing everything up to that point is done. Jo might be able to help with some proofing and editing suggestions. The Hebrew isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be (I think) and I've got a very easy way to enter all Greek and Hebrew so that's going smoothly.

    Monumental effort but I'm very pleased with the results!
     
  22. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    I've got the first three weeks of reading (through Book 2, chapter 2) done and then took a "break" to do the bibliography stuff.

    Chris. You're crazy.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/25y6hzwn8w4bo14/AaronsRod.pdf?dl=0

    I think I've identified most of the references. I'm very clearly not familiar with this literature and I've been unable to identify a few of the references, if anyone spots one they recognize or have a good lead on, please let me know:

    Innocentius, Fr. a S. Clara Apolog. Episcop., cap, 2
    August. tract. 50 in John
    Origin, on Leviticus, Hom. 3
    Confession of Saxony, art. 23
    Jerome ad Marcellum
    Jerusalem Talmud in Sanhedrim
    Walaeus, tom. 2, p. 9 (probably "Tractatus de Munere Ministrorum Ecclesiae", since that is cited later)
    Sopingius, Ad bonam fidem Sibrandi, p. 261, et seq.
    Professors of Groningen, vide Judicium facult. Theol. Accademiae Groninganae, apud Cabeljav. def. potest. Eccl., p. 54
    Cardinalis, on Psa 107:32
    Talmud Hierosol
    Talmud Babyl.
    Abodazara
    Schab
    Juchasin
    Majemon
    Lexicon Polyglot
    Sutluvius de Presbyt.
    Zonaras, upon the 13th canon of the eighth General Council
    Zonaras, Conc. Carthag.
    Galatinus
    Montanus, de Temp. Fabr
    Buxtorf, Dissert de Lit. Hebr.ic.
    Philippus Gamachaeus, Comment. in Tertiam partem Thomae, de Paenitentiae Sacramento
    Maimonides Treatise of offering sacrifices
    Lavater, hom. 23 in Ezram
    Cabeliavius, De Libtertate Ecclesiae in Exercenda Disciplina Spirituali
    Helmichius, De vocatione Pastorum et institutione consistoriorum

    And note that I've not actually verified most of the sources Gillespie wrote, let alone tried to find the specific edition he used. Someone more scholarly (and devoted) than me is welcome to.

    Also I have a request for some input: Often Gillespie will quote from a reference that is a commentary, annotation, or animadversion upon some ancient Hebrew author. But then he also references that ancient Hebrew author from the same book. So it's one book but should it be two different citations because it's two different "authors" for the two different types of material he cites?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
  23. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Maybe a little OCD with my bibliographies. First thought would be to check the bibliography in the revised edition of Gillespie's EPC, Scots Sermons and Bownd [also Grand Debate], if the work is not there it may suggest an author for the abbreviated name. Camer. Myroth is John Cameron, Myrothecium evangelicum, http://www.prdl.org/author_view.php?a_id=189
    Montanus is Benito Arias Montano (Arias Montanus). I wonder if there are typos in the title; check the first edition, he has a work Exemplar, sive, de sacris fabricis Liber
    Joseph Scaliger Elenchus Trihaeresii Nicolai Serarii
    Vatablus, Francois Vatable, Biblia Sacra, Hebraice, Graece, & Latin and at the scripture cited.
    The Jerusalem Talmud in Sanhedrim might could be found in John Selden Judaica Synedriis Sanhedrin Hebraica? that and most of the others need more work. It may also refer to the Jerusalem Talgum but the "in Sanhedrim" may rule that out.
    Ludovicus de Dieu, possibly Ludovici de Dieu Critica sacra, sive animadversiones in loca quaedam difficiliora Veteris et Novi Testamenti or a distinct work on Matthew?

     
  24. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Could you give one or two examples?
     
  25. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you. I have been referencing Popish Ceremonies bibliography, but I also have the Scots Sermons and Bownd so I'll check those too. The other suggestions give me good leads as well. Thanks.

    Sure. From 1844 edition On p. 19, last line and following it says "Henric. Vorstius, in his late animadversions upon Pirke Rabbi Eliezer, wonders..."
    And he cites in a footnote "Animad in Pirke, p. 169". Similarly on p. 23 near the top. "Likewise Hen. Vorstius Animad. in Pirke, p. 230"
    Then p. 23, near the last line, "It is certain from Pirke Rabbi Elieser, cap. 38..."

    From Wikipedia:
    Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer is an aggadic-midrashic work on the Torah containing exegesis and retellings of biblical stories.

    And if I believe Vorstius (Wilhelm Heinrich Vorst) either translated the text into Latin, or had it in a column of Hebrew, either way with his Latin comments. So when it is cited above, there are two "works" being cited, but both from the same volume.
     
  26. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Another example would be Vorst's Annotations on Moses Maimonides. Gillespie cites from Vorstius' comments, but then also uses the volume as a source for Maimonides' words too.

    The work is here.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=I...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    On pg 2 at the top, Gillespie cites "Maimonides, de fundam. legis, cap. 5, sect. 5, yea, saith Gul. Vorstius upon the place"

    Again, another instance where two authors are cited but from the same work, one being a commentary of the other.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2016
  27. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

  28. Logan

    Logan Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you. Cameron, Scaliger, and Vatablus were quickly found after your help. For Ludovicus de Dieu I went with "Animadversions sive Commentarius in Quatuor Evangelia" for now. 1631 so right time period.

    I had another work from Montanus so I did have the "Benito Arias Montano" part, and I had checked the 1646 edition and the "de Temp. Fabric" citation is the same there. Perhaps you're right about it referring to "Exemplar, sive, de sacris fabricis Liber".
     
  29. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Okay; understood now. I would simply cite the source or add 'cited in' if you think that clarifies. If you think you have something really obscure I can check the library catalogs for contemporaries William Greenhill and Lazarus Seaman, the later in particular was noted for having a very large library. I used the sales catalogs for their libraries for the annotated bibliography for Grand Debate. It also would be interesting if one had the time to check what works Gillespie cited were in the assembly's working library they 'borrowed' from Laud's study as well as what would have been in the Westminster abbey library where he also may have done a bit of work. See the appendix in Grand Debate dealing with the theological resources available to the Westminster divines; a version of that research also appeared in The Confessional Presbyterian journal. Another resource would be the works cited in the minutes of the Westminster assembly, for which there is a table in Van Dixhoorn's Minutes, vol. 1.
     
  30. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    It is not impossible this was a typo in the original edition; but I also wouldn't rule out another work similarly titled.
     
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