Two questions about death

[chuckd]

Q. 84. Shall all men die?
A. Death being threatened as the wages of sin, it is appointed unto all men once to die; for that all have sinned.

Q. 85. Death being the wages of sin, why are not the righteous delivered from death, seeing all their sins are forgiven in Christ?
A. The righteous shall be delivered from death itself at the last day, and even in death are delivered from the sting and curse of it; so that, although they die, yet it is out of God's love, to free them perfectly from sin and misery, and to make them capable of further communion with Christ in glory, which they then enter upon.

I'm not sure I understand how this answers the question. We are delivered at the last day, but why not altogether given the wages of sin have been paid?

Q. 86. What is the communion in glory with Christ which the members of the invisible church enjoy immediately after death?
A. The communion in glory with Christ which the members of the invisible church enjoy immediately after death, is, in that their souls are then made perfect in holiness, and received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies, which even in death continue united to Christ, and rest in their graves as in their beds, till at the last day they be again united to their souls. Whereas the souls of the wicked are at their death cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, and their bodies kept in their graves, as in their prisons, till the resurrection and judgment of the great day.

What is death to a believer? Given their souls are in heaven with Christ and their bodies are not dead, but resting. How can we properly say a believer is dead?

 

[Shanny01]

I believe theologians have typically answered that death in so far as it was the legal penalty of Adam's sin and all of us in him no longer bears upon us. Rather, since indwelling sin defines our bodily experience since conversion, death brings the perfected sanctification of our souls which will be consummated by our glorification in the resurrection. The distinction lies in the fact that bodily death is as much a natural result of the fall as it was part of the legal penalty of sin including spiritual death and eternal death.

 

[Shanny01]

Berkhof in his systematic theology on the punishment of sin and Christ's humiliation is helpful on this topic.

 

[Dachaser]

I'm not sure I understand how this answers the question. We are delivered at the last day, but why not altogether given the wages of sin have been paid?



What is death to a believer? Given their souls are in heaven with Christ and their bodies are not dead, but resting. How can we properly say a believer is dead?

The second question Jesus Himself answered for us, as All now saved in Him will never really experience death, as though we do physical die, at that very moment alive with Him now.
John 11:25-26

 

[timfost]

Heidelberg may help clarify:

"42. Since, then, Christ died for us, why must we also die?

Our death is not a satisfaction for our sin, but only a dying to sin and an entering into eternal life.1

[1] Jn. 5:24; Phil. 1:23; Rom. 7:24–25."

 

[TylerRay]

I'm not sure I understand how this answers the question. We are delivered at the last day, but why not altogether given the wages of sin have been paid?

I don't quite understand what you're asking here. Are you asking why believers must die?

What is death to a believer? Given their souls are in heaven with Christ and their bodies are not dead, but resting. How can we properly say a believer is dead?

Death is the separation of the soul from the body. When a believer's soul is separated from his body, he is properly dead, regardless of what happens to either his soul or his body once they're separated.

 

[jwithnell]

We still suffer the temporal consequences of the fall. Indeed, this makes me long even more for a time where I will not displease my Father with sin, nor watch my body suffer from illness and aging.

This time between our salvation and resurrection also helps us identify with Christ's suffering, even to dying.

Our lives offer the opportunity to act as Christ's body, as the church, to encourage one another, to participate in the means of grace, to bring the gospel to those yet lost. The Father gives a worshipping people to his Son.

 

[RamistThomist]

Just be careful not to define death as cessation of consciousness, since the souls of departed believers are conscious (Rev. 6).

 

[Dachaser]

Just be careful not to define death as cessation of consciousness, since the souls of departed believers are conscious (Rev. 6).

Yes, as we would not want to be found teaching soul sleep doctrine.