Verse similar to Romans 7:15? Another scripture reference hunt

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NaphtaliPress

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Below is another clear mistake in the scripture reference in this passage from Durham's lectures on the tenth commandment. What could be intended where 2 Cor. is referenced? I'm not sure of an exactly parallel passage to Romans 7:15. Not sure if Durham has in mind Paul's thorn; that is not typically considered a temptation or sin I thought as much as some bodily weakness etc.?

The more actual stirrings of it [lust; concupiscence] are to be considered, either in their first risings, when they are either not adverted unto and without direct excitation or actual and formal approbation; or as they are checked and rejected, as Paul did his (Rom. 7:15; 2 Cor. 12:3).​
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
He may have been drawing upon the distinctions between Romans 7:15 and the man in the passage of 2 Cor 12 that could have given Paul reason to envy, yet, as in that chapter of 2 Cor, Paul notes his humility in accepting that which was given to him to promote his humility...a thorn. In that context, the cross-reference works for me.
 

NaphtaliPress

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Thanks Patrick. You may be right; Henry's commentary while stating we don't know what exactly the thorn was, does not rule out a temptation; but maybe insert an ff or reference the section rather than just verse 3 which is not immediatley obvious. ?
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
Thanks Patrick. You may be right; Henry's commentary while stating we don't know what exactly the thorn was, does not rule out a temptation; but maybe insert an ff or reference the section rather than just verse 3 which is not immediatley obvious. ?
Yes, 1 Cor. 12:3ff would have been better here.

All readers would be expected to know the Romans 7:15-25 section, given its well-worn examinations, in its entirety would be relevant so there would be no reason for a Rom, 7:15ff. He may have been relying upon all that presumed general understanding and just let 1 Cor. 12:3 stand in juxtaposition and for further exploration. You know, just making the reader dig deeper versus doing the heavy-lifting for them. ;)
 
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NaphtaliPress

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Possibly; given that either due to lacking a specific numeral or just mistakes, there is room for doubt about the "3". There are a lot of errors in the references in the work, not necessarily from Durham, but from the manuscript as prepared and given to the printer who would hand it over to his type compositor, and due to misreading the handwriting, sloppiness, fudging due to lack of type for the specific reference, etc., it got miss-set. And errors in references are one of the most common faults of the era; the first editions with scripture proofs of the WCF, LC and SC are contrary to what one might have expected given their matter and importance, were plagued with them.
Yes, 1 Cor. 12:3ff would have been better here....You know, just making the reader dig deeper versus doing the heavy-lifting for them. ;)
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
I assumed error, looked for 1 Cor 12:3,6,8,13,23,28; 2 Cor. 12:6,8,13 assuming some printer errors likely with the "3" verse numbering. Nothing fit.

I have a means of finding all verses labeled "12:3" to determine if the book is improperly referenced, but laying my hands on that method eludes me at present.
 

NaphtaliPress

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Yes; verse errors are the most usual, chapter numbers a few, and then there are the one or two with wrong books (a notable one, Micah 8:5–7 for Amos 8:5–7). Without tracing these I would have guessed these traced to the Edinburgh printing as they were notorious, as accorded by Aldis, for the most slovenly produced books in Scottish printing history, but a lot of these errors trace to the first edition in London and it is not usual for printers to correct the references and most errors persisted through all the subsequent editions.
I assumed error, looked for 1 Cor 12:3,6,8,13,23,28; 2 Cor. 12:6,8,13 assuming some printer errors likely with the "3" verse numbering. Nothing fit.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

Flatly Unflappable
SwordSearcher's Reference Pattern Search results:
Matthew 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Mark 12:3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.

Luke 12:3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

John 12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

Acts 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

2 Corinthians 12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

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Matthew 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Mark 12:13 ¶ And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

Luke 12:13 ¶ And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.

John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Acts 12:13 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken, named Rhoda.

Romans 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

2 Corinthians 12:13 For what is it wherein ye were inferior to other churches, except it be that I myself was not burdensome to you? forgive me this wrong.

Hebrews 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
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Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mark 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

John 12:8 For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.

Acts 12:8 And the angel said unto him, Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did. And he saith unto him, Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

Romans 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

1 Corinthians 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Nothing promising.
 

NaphtaliPress

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I searched Durham's sermons and the below I think illustrate and probably confirm the reference albeit with the tweaking of an "ff" or wider range of verses.
So then for a direct and short answer to the question, we say that selfishness in its reign and dominion cannot consist with grace being so considered. It is directly opposed to Christ and allowed to take His room, and is an evidence and distinguishing character of a graceless man from a sound believer, whose desire, design and endeavor it is, being constrained thereto by the love of Christ, not to live henceforth to himself, but to Him that died for him [2 Cor. 5:15]. But the selfishness that is in part subdued, interrupted, opposed, wrestled with and protested against may consist with grace, as is clear in Peter and others of the saints, and even singularly selfdenied Paul was hazard to be puffed up with the abundance of revelations, though grace bore it down [2 Cor. 12].​
Sermon 47, in Great Corruption of subtle self, in 61 Sermons, p. 708.
You see in 2 Corinthians 12:[7],
“a messenger of Satan” is sent to buffet Paul, lest he should be puffed up, “or exalted above measure, through the abundance of revelations”; intimating thereby, that there was a hazard of being puffed up; and to prevent that, a messenger of Satan was sent to buffet him. I will not say that this corruption of self was the scourge that was sent to humble him, but it is clear that the quickness and liveliness of this corruption of self was the cause why this messenger of Satan was sent to buffet him, in order to the keeping of him humble and self-denied. Ibid, sermon 45, p. 672.​

We see likewise [in] 2 Corinthians 12:[1–9], when Paul is caught up to the third heavens, he is in hazard of being exalted above measure by this self. sermon 46, p. 682.
 

C. Matthew McMahon

Christian Preacher
Off, but on topic, "But the selfishness that is in part subdued, interrupted, opposed, wrestled with and protested against may consist with grace, as is clear in Peter and others of the saints, and even singularly selfdenied Paul was hazard to be puffed up with the abundance of revelations, though grace bore it down [2 Cor. 12]."

This is, in my estimation, a most (the most) disheartening and painful aspect of the Christian walk. Who shall deliver me from this body of death?!
 

PuritanCovenanter

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Chris, I may be way off the mark here but Paul is speaking about things where struggles start. Could it be a misprint on referring to 1 Corinthians 2


(1Co 2:11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
(1Co 2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(1Co 2:13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(1Co 2:14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.


Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
 
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PuritanCovenanter

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(Rom 7:13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
(Rom 7:14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(Rom 7:15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
(Rom 7:16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
(Rom 7:17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Rom 7:18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
(Rom 7:19) For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
(Rom 7:20) Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
(Rom 7:21) I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
(Rom 7:22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
(Rom 7:23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
(Rom 7:24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
(Rom 7:25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



(1Co 10:12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


Sorry Chris, understanding Paul's struggle has been a life long pursuit.
 

bookslover

Puritan Board Doctor
Related: I've noticed that James Dennison corrected a lot of Francis Turretin's Scripture citations in his Elenctic Theology. Of course, I don't know if those are Turretin's errors or the printer's.
 

NaphtaliPress

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On my limited experience my vote is, blame the printers not the theologians.
Related: I've noticed that James Dennison corrected a lot of Francis Turretin's Scripture citations in his Elenctic Theology. Of course, I don't know if those are Turretin's errors or the printer's.
 
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