Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
The SBC is much larger.
Visiting a United Methodist Church Tomorrow
- Thread starter BibleCyst
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The SBC is much larger.
Bill The Baptist
Puritan Board Graduate
The SBC is not considered mainline. That would be Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Episcopal.
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Oh I assumed they were mainline. That shows what I know.
Jack K
Puritan Board Doctor
Then it's good you decided to visit her church with her. It ought to help you two engage in many important and necessary discussions about faith, no matter how good or bad you found the church to be.
As previous posts have mentioned, there will be many concerns with the vast majority of Methodist congregations in the US. But if you've been a Presbyterian I would think you found the Methodists not too weird style-wise. I wouldn't attend one regularly, but occasionally I visit a Methodist church with my in-laws. When I do, I remind myself that it is, after all, the church of the Wesleys. This means that when the pastor strays from the gospel it isn't me, but rather him, who is out of place.
dudley
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
After I left the Roman Catholic church I explored all the major Protestant denominations...I knew I would become aProtestant ....but needed to know the theolgy of each group and how they worshipped. I was Episcapalian for a while , then Lutheran , then Methodist , explored the Baptsits and finally settled in and became a Presbyterian. So I can give yousome idea.
As a fellow Presbyterian you know our theology as Presbyterians is Reformed theology and emphasizes the sovereignty of God, the authority of the Scriptures, and the necessity of grace through faith in Christ. The driving principle in the development of the standards of Presbyterian worship is the Regulative principle of worship, which specifies that (in worship), what is not commanded is forbidden. In the United Methodist church I explored grape juice is used instead of wine and the Methodists belikeve pretty much as we do as Presbyterians that the sacrament is Memorialism. They do say it represents Christ sacrifice on calvary but they do not believe as the Roman catholics do the false teaching that the bread actully becomes Christs body. A typical worship service at a United Methodist church may include a greeting and opening prayer, time for people to greet each other, scripture readings, silent prayer and meditation, an offering, the Lord’s Prayer,( theu do not say Debts and debtors as we Presbyterians do) sometimes there is a children’s message, then the sermon, special music and hymns, and a closing prayer. Communion may also be served. They have an open communion table and I was welcomed to receive communion with them the very first Sunday explored the Methodist churc.All are invited to celebrate communion, but you can choose whether or not you wish to participate.
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Or more to the point, the American Baptist Churches USA is the mainline baptist denomination.
BenjaminBurton
Puritan Board Freshman
I attended a UMC while in middle/high school with a friend of mine. I don't remember too much of what was said, mostly because there wasn't much being said. The church's minister was a woman, there was small choir where members often held little American flags for some reason, there was an encouraging children's bit, special music, a sort of homily, and at the end of the service we sang "Let There be Peace on Earth and Let it Begin With Me." Still don't understand that last one, but I distinctly remember attending their youth group multiple times and understanding that the lady who often lead the teaching times had no clue what she was talking about. They were evangelistic but there were multiple openly gay students from my high school who attended there with no repercussion. And, as mentioned before, there were extreme feminist overtones.
Be wise, brother.
Be wise, brother.
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Wow. I just looked up what you were talking about in your posts. Wow. Just an unintentionally funny excerpt:
What writings of Timothy do we have?
dudley
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I would strongly urge you to guide your Girlfriend in to the reformed faith and as a presbyterian I would seek to evangelize and convert her to Prebyterainism. i would suggest you have her join an inguirers class at your PCA churc.There are also many good books and articles on "Why I became a Presbyterian" and what be a Presbyterian or Becoming a Presbyterian that I mentioned the other night. They can be found and down loaded on line.
Just curious, what % of the SBC is truly mainline? I know the good guys have commandeered the majority of the votes, thankfully, for a good period of time.
TomVols
Puritan Board Freshman
I'm with you. I know more evangelical UMCs than I know evangelical Baptists. The ones I know are broadly Wesleyan, but then again, no moreso than the avg Baptist church.
Claremont does not receive apportionments from the denom for use in that program they started, btw, That was squelched last year in an uproar from conservative UMCs. From what I gather, there is a huge movement afoot similar to what happened in the SBC years ago (the 'Conservative Resurgence').
I join with Whitefield in that I'm stunned so many paint with a broad brush.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
I have lived in Pittsburgh, PA, Portsmouth, OH, Clarksburg, WV, and now Ellisville, MS in the last 10 years. Every single UMC church in these areas that I was intimately involved with was liberal.
The local UMC Pastor here in Ellisville is pro-Gay Ordination, etc.
Maybe there are "conservative" UMC people out there, I just don't know any.
The local UMC Pastor here in Ellisville is pro-Gay Ordination, etc.
Maybe there are "conservative" UMC people out there, I just don't know any.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
Gotta take control of the situation when frolicking with the maidens.
It can be tough...
Martin
Puritan Board Freshman
I was viewing some of the websites mention before which I navigated to this page from: Homophobia and Heterosexism | The General Board of Church and Society I had no idea that the UMC was doing all of this. I knew it was liberal, but was blind to how much. Maybe its time I begin to seriously look into finding somewhere else to attend.
---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------
Introduction
Marriage is, essentially, a question of pastoral care. The church is called by God to support and bless the loving, lifelong commitment of two same-gender people as with any other family and loving commitment. Current United Methodist policy forbids marriages or Holy Unions in United Methodists buildings or by any United Methodist clergy person. Reconciling congregations have found a variety of responses to the question, how will we support and honor the loving commitment of same-gender couples? Congregations might:
* Invite gay and lesbian couples to reaffirm their vows in a church service;
* Hold no marriages in the church and ask the pastor to refrain from conducting marriages;
* Conduct marriages and Holy Unions accepting the risk of charges by the Annual Conference;
* Focus upon legislative and advocacy to change UMC policies
* Advocate for civil marriage and/or civil union equality
* Pass a marriage policy or statement of support for equality.
This list if from the Reconciling Ministries Network page. I had no idea it was this bad.
---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------
Introduction
Marriage is, essentially, a question of pastoral care. The church is called by God to support and bless the loving, lifelong commitment of two same-gender people as with any other family and loving commitment. Current United Methodist policy forbids marriages or Holy Unions in United Methodists buildings or by any United Methodist clergy person. Reconciling congregations have found a variety of responses to the question, how will we support and honor the loving commitment of same-gender couples? Congregations might:
* Invite gay and lesbian couples to reaffirm their vows in a church service;
* Hold no marriages in the church and ask the pastor to refrain from conducting marriages;
* Conduct marriages and Holy Unions accepting the risk of charges by the Annual Conference;
* Focus upon legislative and advocacy to change UMC policies
* Advocate for civil marriage and/or civil union equality
* Pass a marriage policy or statement of support for equality.
This list if from the Reconciling Ministries Network page. I had no idea it was this bad.
Whitefield
Puritan Board Junior
If you will do your homework, you will find out that The Reconciling Ministries Network is NOT an official organization within the UMC. It is an ultra-liberal caucus which has been repeatedly opposed by the General Conference. In fact, some were arrested at the last General Conference for disruption and trespassing. There is a fundamental battle going on in UMC, and stereotyping by any group is not helpful, especially to the conservative side. The Board on Church and Society is not taken very seriously by the mainstream in the UMC. That Board has been on the extreme left for many decades, and they have continually gone beyond their mandate given by the General Conference. That Board has gone through some radical budgetary cuts due to de-funding of much of what they advocate. At the past couple of General Conferences there has been a growing movement to disband the Board of Church and Society.
DMcFadden
Puritanboard Commissioner
Are you asking what percentage of the SBC is liberal in orientation? The term "mainline" is a term of art for the original "seven sisters" that represented "respectable" Protestantism in the early to middle portion of the last century: ABCUSA, Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America, PCUSA, UCC, and United Methodist Church. As Pentecostalism, broad evangelicalism, and the independent church movements grew, the mainlines became more sidelines on a trajectory to become flatlines.
My denom of more than 50 years was the ABCUSA so my knowledge of SBC is largely anecdotal. However, the truly liberal elements of the SBC were strongest in the denominational staff and institutions (prior to the resurgence), and in a few of the congregations located in university towns and urban settings. The truly liberal folks generally joined the Alliance of Baptists (relatively small group) or the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship that formed out of disgruntled SBC churches, now with 1,800 congregations and a $14.5 million annual budget.
Calvinist of the Ozarks
Puritan Board Freshman
The UMC froze Claremonts funding when UMC members complained but then chose after a period of time to send the money.
I just checked the UMC homepage and Claremont is on the list of semanries that are funded.
I just checked the UMC homepage and Claremont is on the list of semanries that are funded.
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Dearly Bought
Puritan Board Junior
Funding for Claremont was briefly rescinded, but was restored in June of 2010. In a clever move, the school decided to organize its new endeavours so that UMC funds are ostensibly only going to the Christian school of theology. The Claremont School of Theology will then participate in the new multi-faith "University" programs alongside the Jewish and Islamic groups (link). This is a victory for orthodoxy?...
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize this.
BibleCyst
Puritan Board Freshman
Wow! This thread grew fast! Thank you, everybody, for the words of wisdom.
Her church was very interesting. My greatest concern turned out to be Arminianism, which is actually a relief. While it is error, it's SO much easier to deal with then the other problems of the UMC. The only real weird thing was in Sunday school, they were discussing types of Christ, and somehow made the "sun" (yes, the glowing thing in the sky) to be a type of Christ. It was a weird analogy. All of the Pastors were male, and oddly, all of the people that served communion were male as well. (I'm wondering if they were elders, bishops, or whatever Methodists call them.) I did feel comfortable taking communion, which is saying something considering I'm a puritan. Remember when I mentioned flag waving in my first post? Well, there was a woman walking around waving a giant "Jesus" flag. The service kinda bordered on charismatic. I did end up concluding that her particular congregation is not apostate... just very broadly evangelical with weird things that occasionally trickle down from the UMC.
For those who are asking why she isn't going to church with me, she actually is. She's coming to my church next week. She really loves her church, though. Very deeply. She will not be leaving it. Thankfully, she is a genuine believer.
Her church was very interesting. My greatest concern turned out to be Arminianism, which is actually a relief. While it is error, it's SO much easier to deal with then the other problems of the UMC. The only real weird thing was in Sunday school, they were discussing types of Christ, and somehow made the "sun" (yes, the glowing thing in the sky) to be a type of Christ. It was a weird analogy. All of the Pastors were male, and oddly, all of the people that served communion were male as well. (I'm wondering if they were elders, bishops, or whatever Methodists call them.) I did feel comfortable taking communion, which is saying something considering I'm a puritan. Remember when I mentioned flag waving in my first post? Well, there was a woman walking around waving a giant "Jesus" flag. The service kinda bordered on charismatic. I did end up concluding that her particular congregation is not apostate... just very broadly evangelical with weird things that occasionally trickle down from the UMC.
For those who are asking why she isn't going to church with me, she actually is. She's coming to my church next week. She really loves her church, though. Very deeply. She will not be leaving it. Thankfully, she is a genuine believer.
Zenas
Snow Miser
This would cause me serious concern for the future. I would refrain from further emotional involvement until she is willing to sit under Biblical teaching.
BibleCyst
Puritan Board Freshman
Men, I thank you for the advise and words of wisdom. I did, however, determine that her church is not apostate. I was comfortable taking communion there. Though there is error in her church, there is also error in my church. I believe that she has placed herself under Godly authority. I will not see the full scope of this until I see how she reacts to my church, which is very much Reformed. As of what I know now, I will not be ending the courtship over this.
BibleCyst
Puritan Board Freshman
I agree, brother. That will have to be addressed, if we get that far.
Brother, you say that Presbyterians believe that the sacrament (the Lord's Supper) "is Memorialism". That may be the position of the PCUSA which your congregation belongs to, but it certainly is not the official position of the more conservative Presbyterians such as the PCA, OPC, the RPCNA and even the RCUS, URCNA and historically Congregationalism and Reformed Anglicans. Question 96 of the Shorter Catechism says that not only do we feed on the Lord spiritually, but that this sacrament is a means of grace.
J. Dean
Puritan Board Junior
UMC is a liberal denomination. This is not to say that all churches in and of themselves are liberal, but the denomination as a whole takes a very unscriptural stance on many issues.
To tell the truth, I concur with others here who have said that she should be going to your church.
To tell the truth, I concur with others here who have said that she should be going to your church.
awretchsavedbygrace
Puritan Board Sophomore
Hi. I don't want to keep repeating what Josh and the others have said, but I feel like I should. I too was dating a girl who went to a methodist church- and lets just say, she didn't want to leave her church. Pray about it. Talk to her. I'm assuming you would have her become a member of your church when the time is right. So, just make sure you guys are on the same page.
FenderPriest
Puritan Board Junior
I grew up in the UMC, and while there may be some elements of flag waving, feminist theology, etc., what one finds at any given church will vary from region to region, and church to church. I went to a decent UMC church in Mobile, AL while I was in high school, and while there were things there of concern (women elders, church-growth models, etc.), I wouldn't call the church apostate since they reflected the more conservative end of the UMC spectrum in their Gospel beliefs. I went to many UMC churches growing up across the south, and worked at a few as well, and never ran into flag waving... so maybe that's a northern thing. Anyhoo... Introduce your girlfriend to the original Methodist - George Whitefield - and have her read Dalimore's biography, and she'll probably want to be a true methodist after that instead of a UMC'r... Just say'n.
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