Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
No one should be passing the "peace" in church in these days of Corona. Indoor smoking is bad, anyway.I attended an OPC for a bit. Don't remember it being that high
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
No one should be passing the "peace" in church in these days of Corona. Indoor smoking is bad, anyway.I attended an OPC for a bit. Don't remember it being that high
Ha.....No one should be passing the "peace" in church in these days of Corona. Indoor smoking is bad, anyway.
think you meant to post this in a different thread.
JB, I agree. However, there are also many other things that Christians do that open them up to demonic influence and the demonic realm like watching silly movies, bad music, yoga, aimless meditation, idols, and reading harry potter books.....ha. but the drugs are the worst.Hello Trent,
You said in the OP, “While drugs are bad and immoral… in what way should the government combat it in a Biblical way considering their widespread use?”
As was answered by Rich, it’s essentially legal now, and where it’s not will be soon enough. The world has opted to allow and even promote these drugs. You didn’t specify which drugs, so I’ll answer as regards those that are recreational and in the psychedelic class—marijuana, hashish, peyote, magic (psilocybin) mushrooms, mescaline, LSD, DMT, and others with like properties. What properties? What the Scripture calls sorcerous drugs, allowing interaction between the human sphere of consciousness and the demonic sphere, the barrier between the two realms able to be breached by sorcery, aka witchcraft.
Perg in post 6 says, “But the Church is imbalanced on this issue.” How so? He says, “They prefer synthetic addictive opioids which cause many deaths to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.”
So now at PB we have a Christian promoting THC (the active sorcerous ingredient in marijuana and hash).
From a paper I wrote on the topic, part of which touched on the medicinal use for Christians, I said,
Let me share concerning a New York State Supreme Court Justice, the late Gustin L. Reichbach. He made headlines, while a sitting judge, that is, still practicing in the Court, by writing an op-ed piece for The New York Times in which he acknowledged smoking marijuana to ease the side effects of his treatment for stage 3 pancreatic cancer. Without it he couldn’t eat or sleep. He wrote this in May of 2012, and died 60 days later. His plea for the legalization of its medicinal use was both courageous and heart-wrenching. To a non-Christian it might seem almost a no-brainer.However, I am a Christian—and I am speaking to those of you who also are—and must spiritually consider, what is the cost of doing as the judge did? I do not believe Justice Reichbach was a disciple of Christ, but for a disciple what would the issue be? It would be opening the heart and mind to demonic activity. Let me put myself in his place: without some grass—inhaled or ingested—I cannot eat (my appetite has failed), and cannot sleep, both of which I need to sustain my life. But with it, I could do both. The pain of the cancer—if I tried to steer clear of the opioids which might make me groggy—could also be slightly diminished by smoking the grass. Would it be worth it to me? To the world this dilemma would be false, delusional, and inhumane! To the spiritual man or woman it is vital and actual: would I allow my communion with Christ and communion with other disciples to be open to influence or infiltration by demonic beings? Just for the ability to eat something, or sleep, or to relieve pain? No, God giving me strength I would retain my integrity of being before Him and my friends. I would refuse to smoke or ingest the “medicinal” marijuana for the sake of keeping my spiritual health and integrity. Especially if I were in terrible pain with advanced, terminal cancer, I would not use marijuana for relief. I would rather have morphine or the like. Would anyone in their right mind, when on the very brink of death and entrance into eternity, open their hearts and minds to demonic influence? That would be sheer destructive madness!
This will be my first post in this thread. No doubt more to follow.
For what it is worth, possession of any controlled substance is, for now, decriminalized in the State of Washington.An interesting approach by Portugal: decriminalizing drugs.
"...Portugal became the first country to decriminalise the possession and consumption of all illicit substances. Rather than being arrested, those caught with a personal supply might be given a warning, a small fine, or told to appear before a local commission – a doctor, a lawyer and a social worker – about treatment, harm reduction, and the support services that were available to them." (reference).
But the over-the-counter cannabis, such as that which @Pergamum uses, does not have THC in it, correct?I just wanted to speak to the idea that THC is harmless.
Not correct. At least not in the pot shops around here.But the over-the-counter cannabis, such as that which @Pergamum uses, does not have THC in it, correct?
Do you think heroine opens your mind to demonic activity too?Hello Trent,
You said in the OP, “While drugs are bad and immoral… in what way should the government combat it in a Biblical way considering their widespread use?”
As was answered by Rich, it’s essentially legal now, and where it’s not will be soon enough. The world has opted to allow and even promote these drugs. You didn’t specify which drugs, so I’ll answer as regards those that are recreational and in the psychedelic class—marijuana, hashish, peyote, magic (psilocybin) mushrooms, mescaline, LSD, DMT, and others with like properties. What properties? What the Scripture calls sorcerous drugs, allowing interaction between the human sphere of consciousness and the demonic sphere, the barrier between the two realms able to be breached by sorcery, aka witchcraft.
Perg in post 6 says, “But the Church is imbalanced on this issue.” How so? He says, “They prefer synthetic addictive opioids which cause many deaths to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.”
So now at PB we have a Christian promoting THC (the active sorcerous ingredient in marijuana and hash).
From a paper I wrote on the topic, part of which touched on the medicinal use for Christians, I said,
Let me share concerning a New York State Supreme Court Justice, the late Gustin L. Reichbach. He made headlines, while a sitting judge, that is, still practicing in the Court, by writing an op-ed piece for The New York Times in which he acknowledged smoking marijuana to ease the side effects of his treatment for stage 3 pancreatic cancer. Without it he couldn’t eat or sleep. He wrote this in May of 2012, and died 60 days later. His plea for the legalization of its medicinal use was both courageous and heart-wrenching. To a non-Christian it might seem almost a no-brainer.However, I am a Christian—and I am speaking to those of you who also are—and must spiritually consider, what is the cost of doing as the judge did? I do not believe Justice Reichbach was a disciple of Christ, but for a disciple what would the issue be? It would be opening the heart and mind to demonic activity. Let me put myself in his place: without some grass—inhaled or ingested—I cannot eat (my appetite has failed), and cannot sleep, both of which I need to sustain my life. But with it, I could do both. The pain of the cancer—if I tried to steer clear of the opioids which might make me groggy—could also be slightly diminished by smoking the grass. Would it be worth it to me? To the world this dilemma would be false, delusional, and inhumane! To the spiritual man or woman it is vital and actual: would I allow my communion with Christ and communion with other disciples to be open to influence or infiltration by demonic beings? Just for the ability to eat something, or sleep, or to relieve pain? No, God giving me strength I would retain my integrity of being before Him and my friends. I would refuse to smoke or ingest the “medicinal” marijuana for the sake of keeping my spiritual health and integrity. Especially if I were in terrible pain with advanced, terminal cancer, I would not use marijuana for relief. I would rather have morphine or the like. Would anyone in their right mind, when on the very brink of death and entrance into eternity, open their hearts and minds to demonic influence? That would be sheer destructive madness!
This will be my first post in this thread. No doubt more to follow.
But the over-the-counter cannabis, such as that which @Pergamum uses, does not have THC in it, correct?
Not correct. At least not in the pot shops around here.
Thanks for the clarification. I really am ignorant of these things.I cannot speak to what he uses. Usually "gummies" do have THC in them. I have never seen CBD oil sold in "gummies". That does not mean that it isn't. I am only saying that gummies are usually sold with THC in them and are meant to be enjoyed as a recreational drug.
Perg, I like your answers. I hate pain and will take whatever I need to in order to stop it. All due respect to Pastor JB, but like I said earlier, the devil is always around the corner and will use anything to attack Christians. It's one thing to take drugs in order to try and cast spells, engage in withcraft, sorcery, try to connect with the dead and demons or take it solely for entertainment purpose. However, it's another thing to take a drug that has been medically approved, legalized, and given in a controlled way in order to cope with pain and so on.Legit Medical uses of Marijuana that have been used medically and which I cannot find sinful:
1. It is very effective as an Anti-emetic (anti-nausea) for use during cancer chemotherapy.
2. Multiple sclerosis.
3. Glaucoma.
4. Analgesia (pain relief for cancer patients).
Medical literature abounds as to the efficacy of medical marijuana for these uses, as well as alleviating chronic pain and the insomnia associated with it. If the substance is cheap and effective and less addictive than other options such as opiods, then why not?
It is hard to target cannabis when there are so many other worse drugs out there... unless you are a cultural remnant of the 60s and your Christian beliefs are influenced by your revulsion of hippies/70's pot culture, etc. As more studies emerge I believe Christians will free themselves from the cultural associations of cannabis and treat it as other substances and evaluate it thusly instead of through the lens of the last generation's Fundamentalism.
The majority of Christians now favor the use of cannabis/marijuana for medical uses. God gave us dominion over all the earth and even the vilest poisons also have alternate medicinal uses if we prepare and dose these substances correctly.
Lots of Christians use Ambien, and yet this causes hallucinogenic effects more than medical marijuana. Where is the anti-Ambien lobby? Is it demonic also? The classic psychedelics include LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin. Marijuana is never listed among this group. Several non-hallucinogenic meds also can cause hallucinations for some people and under the right conditions, but are similarly not listed as hallucinogens. If your argument is that hallucinogens are inherently demonic, then we must scrap all meds that have any history of side-effects of hallucinations, because even a little bit of demonic contact is no good. But for this we must argue that, 1. hallucinations necessarily mean an entrance into contact with the demonic, 2. all hallucinations then, even from malarial fever, must now be linked to the demonic, and 3. any med that ever causes these side-effects is demonic. Sure, I support cautions with regards to classic hallucinogens such as LSD and DMT. But to call Ambien use demonic because some people hallucinate while on Ambien is a fringe argument. And it happens even less with cannabis gummies.
People who suffer from chronic and severe pain and insomnia associated with it often have few non-addictive choices. Cannabis is a better choice than Ambien or Opiods or Xanax. I support pain relief for those who suffer most and would not favor denying this option to the afflicted. It is mercy and love to provide the best pain relief options for patients.
AmenAnd here is the crux of the matter. We steep in the belief (esp in America) that life should be grand, painless and easy. And it isn't for anyone, for long. Medications are sometimes necessary, for sure. But also we need to see this world rightly, as a place of enemy territory, so to speak.
We'd be a lot less miserable if we expected difficulty, hardship and loss. We'd be a lot more grateful for the good, too.
Our minds have been so warped by our materialism (in all senses). Trying to make this place our 'continuing city' leads to all sorts manifestations of need and greed and consequent pain.
Andrew, very well said. I'm sure I will refer to your reply if ever needed All due respect to Pastor Steve, but my contention is that Paul's list contains more than a condemnation of sorcery. Not that Pastor Steve is wrong, but to be fair the whole list of sins mentioned by Paul need also to be discussed. To engage in any of those behaviors is also to give a place to the devil and demons.Does the Bible ever refer to someone accidentally committing sorcery? From what I see in Scripture, sorcery is a deliberate spiritual experience, and drugs may be used to help facilitate or enhance that experience. Sorcerers intend to interact with the demonic realm and, in my opinion, likely use drugs to try to enhance their perceptions of the unseen spiritual reality. It is as though they are trying to make their demonic faith become sight, even if their drug-induced trip is a hallucination. I do not doubt that demons seize the opportunity to influence their willing victims, and the practice is sure proof of the sorcerer's sin-entrenched, God-hating heart.
With that said, I think "sorcery" is entirely different than someone using THC to ameliorate suffering. Yes, someone may use marijuana sorcerously, but that does not mean marijuana is inherently sorcerous. As previous posters have "hashed out", marijuana or a derivative may be intentionally and carefully used for medicinal purposes that, to my reading, are completely unlike the "sorcery" and "witchcraft" discussed in Scripture. Consequently, to say any and all medicinal uses of marijuana are unrighteous and sorcerous is, most importantly, a claim beyond the scope of God's Word. It may be well-intended, but it binds peoples' consciences, produces unnecessary guilt or shame, and may drive people to more dangerous drugs (e.g., opioids) to manage their ailments. Framing this issue in terms of "utility" versus "righteousness" only adds insult to injury, as it were.
py3ak,Our dear brother Mr. Rafalsky and I have gone around on this topic before. I think the exegetical case that links "sorcery" in Scripture to a particular class of drugs is not proven. And after seeing how diligently Mr. Rafalsky has worked to make that case, I'm inclined to think that if he can't demonstrate it, probably no one can.
I also have significant reservations about the idea of substances with direct spiritual impacts. If THC is welcoming to demons, is the scent of burning sage also repulsive to them? But I will say this, for the other side of the debate. Although users of ayahuasca, psilocybin, DMT, and so forth sometimes have different interpretive frameworks for their experiences, many will say that the drugs are a gateway into the spirit world. It's perfectly possible that they are wrong. But even if so, their intent is bad. And even if they explain it poorly, their reports of experience should be taken seriously. If I'm going to be introduced to Pachamama after inhaling some substance, that probably is something I want to avoid. Nightmares about an exotic meats taco truck with golden fried armadillo served whole on the side are bad enough; I don't need more fodder for horror.