WARNING: Reading this will turn you Presbyterian - Independency A Great Schism ebook

[C. Matthew McMahon]

By the time you hit page 100, you'll be looking for a Reformed Presbyterian Church to attend.

Independency a Great Schism by Daniel Cawdrey is an important work for understanding the historic ante-denominational Presbyterian position as to the catholicity of the church and its membership. This work is HIGHLY recommended and overturns Owen's work "A Tract on Schism", which essentially represents the modern post-denominational Presbyterian position.

Cawdrey masterfully deals with Owen’s work, and explains the nature of Dr. Owen’s mistakes on attempting to justify Independency. Cawdrey not only demonstrates that Dr. Owen is biblically wrong, but also that the position of Independency is in fact a “great schism” to the church of Jesus Christ.

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[baron]

Will one profit from this book, if they never read the work by John Owen? Well I purchased the Kindle download, not a bad price. I shall see if I will profit from reading it. Thanks.

 

[JML]

Sounds like an interesting read. I think I will pick that one up. I was looking at some of his works and a lot of them look good. He even has one called: A Diatribe concerning Superstition, Will-worship, and the Christmas Festival. Sadly not in print as far as I can tell.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Will one profit from this book, if they never read the work by John Owen? Well I purchased the Kindle download, not a bad price. I shall see if I will profit from reading it. Thanks.

Absolutely, Cawdrey explains and quotes Owen as he goes.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Sounds like an interesting read. I think I will pick that one up. I was looking at some of his works and a lot of them look good. He even has one called: A Diatribe concerning Superstition, Will-worship, and the Christmas Festival. Sadly not in print as far as I can tell.

I'm working to get all of Cawdrey in print. Actually, we are working on his Diatribe right now...as well as all his sermons.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Speaking of Cawdrey; I have all of his and Palmers work on the Sabbath in text, just needs editing. That would be a huge work and mammoth waste time and money to duplicate effort.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Speaking of Cawdrey; I have all of his and Palmers work on the Sabbath in text, just needs editing. That would be a huge work and mammoth waste time and money to duplicate effort.

Chris, No problem. I was aware of it, but didn't / haven't started it. Thanks for the update.

 

[BobVigneault]

I don't think that a person can just DECIDE to become a Presbyterian - except the Father draw him, no one can come to Presbyterianism. Becoming a Presbyterian depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

 

[JonathanHunt]

*sigh*

I mean, I'm almost tempted to read it to prove you wrong (by not becoming a presbyterian) but then you'll probably tell me that I didn't read it carefully enough!

 

[MLCOPE2]

*sigh*

I mean, I'm almost tempted to read it to prove you wrong (by not becoming a presbyterian) but then you'll probably tell me that I didn't read it carefully enough!

James 4:17

 

[JohnGill]

Both Owen and Cotton wrote refutations to Cawdry's works. And as pointed out in their rebuttals, Cawdry and his brethren were charged of being schismatic by the Episcopalians of their day and many believed more justly so than the charge of being schismatic leveled against the independents. Here's the link to Owen's first rebuttal of Cawdry: A review of the true nature of schism, with a vindication of the Congregational Churches. It's a bit of a stretch to claim Cawdry overturned Owen's position and proved it biblically wrong, when those on the other side of the argument make the same claim of Cawdry's position. And I agree with Owen's sentiment on this issue, "I no way doubt that Satan hath his design in this whole business. He knows how apt we are to fix on such provocations, and to contribute thereupon to the increase of our differences." Perhaps we should follow Owen's advice and labour to extinguish such flames instead of throwing oil on such a fire.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

*sigh*

I mean, I'm almost tempted to read it to prove you wrong (by not becoming a presbyterian) but then you'll probably tell me that I didn't read it carefully enough!

James 4:17

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Both Owen and Cotton wrote refutations to Cawdry's works. And as pointed out in their rebuttals, Cawdry and his brethren were charged of being schismatic by the Episcopalians of their day and many believed more justly so than the charge of being schismatic leveled against the independents. Here's the link to Owen's first rebuttal of Cawdry: A review of the true nature of schism, with a vindication of the Congregational Churches. It's a bit of a stretch to claim Cawdry overturned Owen's position and proved it biblically wrong, when those on the other side of the argument make the same claim of Cawdry's position. And I agree with Owen's sentiment on this issue, "I no way doubt that Satan hath his design in this whole business. He knows how apt we are to fix on such provocations, and to contribute thereupon to the increase of our differences." Perhaps we should follow Owen's advice and labour to extinguish such flames instead of throwing oil on such a fire.

Cawdrey has a refutation of Owen's "refutation." Cawdrey also deals very adequately on the Episcopal schism idea, using Owen's own words.

Keep in mind when it is said "Cawdrey and his brethren"... in that "little group" were the majority of the Westminster divines, those ascribing to the National Covenant in England, Scotland and Ireland and all the Presbyterians of the day. (Just for clarification.)

 

[JohnGill]

And Owen has a refutation to Cawdry's "refutation", as does Cotton Mather. My biggest problem with Cawdry is the false charge of Donatism he levels against Owen. A charge unsubstantiated from Owen's work which Cawdry claims to be refuting.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

And Owen has a refutation to Cawdry's "refutation", as does Cotton Mather. My biggest problem with Cawdry is the false charge of Donatism he levels against Owen. A charge unsubstantiated from Owen's work which Cawdry claims to be refuting.

I'd have to say, I haven't seen Owen get out of it.

 

[timmopussycat]

Does Cawdrey deal with what I think may be Owen's last work on this subject, namely The Nature of a Gospel or a New Testament Church?

 

[JohnGill]

Does Cawdrey deal with what I think may be Owen's last work on this subject, namely The Nature of a Gospel or a New Testament Church?

Not from what I've read. The order I've found is Owen, Cawdry, Cotton, Cotton & Owen, Cawrdy, and then Cotton & Owen. After that the matter seems to have ended. My biggest problem with Cawdry is his erecting straw men with regards to Owen's position and his false allegations of Donatism against Owen. Defeating a straw man of your opponent's position doesn't defeat your opponent's position. Then of course there was the acrimony such discussions brought about.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Does Cawdrey deal with what I think may be Owen's last work on this subject, namely The Nature of a Gospel or a New Testament Church?

Not from what I've read. The order I've found is Owen, Cawdry, Cotton, Cotton & Owen, Cawrdy, and then Cotton & Owen. After that the matter seems to have ended. My biggest problem with Cawdry is his erecting straw men with regards to Owen's position and his false allegations of Donatism against Owen. Defeating a straw man of your opponent's position doesn't defeat your opponent's position. Then of course there was the acrimony such discussions brought about.

In my dealings with these old Puritans, Cawdrey is a "particular" fellow. There is not much out there on him, and what he did deal with was either on worship, or involved with this schism controversy. He did not deal with the "writings" of any of the Puritans in the regard of study or making a thesis. He only dealt directly with things written on this subject, as did Thomas Edwards. To my knowledge, there is only one sermon outside these two topics that is on The Good Man a Publick Good, 1643.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Cawdrey did not publish many sermons, four or five judging from Reid's entries for him (cf. Memoirs of the lives and writings of those eminent Divines, who covened in ... - James Reid - Google Books I published his Family Reformation Promoted (which is made up of a sermon or essay and a catechism) many years ago in the Naphtali Press Anthology of Presbyterian & Reformed Literature and also in an ebook which contained it and other Puritan writings from that series, which I no longer offer. I had hoped to do his Church Reformation Promoted; never got to it. Would be nice to see both of those published together in a volume.