I'm wondering if the identify of Judas as Jesus' betrayer didn't happen more than once that night in the upper room. Once during the meal before the Lord's Supper (Matthew/Mark), once after it (Luke), and once after the washing of the disciples' feet (John). In one account, Judas was shown by dipping his hand along with Jesus (revealed after the fact- could this be washing, not the dipping of bread?). In the other, Jesus says He will give him the sop. These seem like two different events to me. John 13:28-29 shows the disciples' slowness to learn, so what do you think?: I know there's discussion of whether or not Luke is putting the events in chronological order, but does he speak of things in non-chronological order anywhere else?