Was the law given before the law was given?

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blhowes

Puritan Board Professor
Was the law given before the law was given? Sometimes I ask myself this question when I read verses like these about Noah and Abraham, who lived of course before the law was given to Moses.

Noah:
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens,
If I were Noah, and God had commanded me to bring every clean beast into the ark, my first question would have been which ones are clean and which ones are not clean. Noah never asked the question - it appears that he knew which ones were the clean ones

Here's what Gill says about the verse:
Gen 7:2 - Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens,.... From hence it appears, that the distinction of clean and unclean beasts, at least for sacrifice, if not for food, was known before the flood, and so before the law of Moses; though some think this is said by anticipation, and as providing a large stock of such creatures for the propagation of their species; because they would be most serviceable to men both for food and sacrifice: but as it is certain that sacrifices were offered ever since the fall of man; by the same way, namely, by divine revelation, that men were taught to sacrifice creatures as typical of the sacrifice of Christ, they were directed what sort of creatures to offer, as were most suitable figures of him; those beasts that were clean, and used under the law, and so no doubt, at this time, were oxen, sheep, and goats: and these were to be taken into the ark by "sevens", or "seven seven" (p);

Abraham:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham obeyed God's commandments, statutes, and laws? Are these the same ones that God gave to Moses?

Was the law given before the law? Was it the same law as the one given to Moses?
 
Was the law given before the law was given? Sometimes I ask myself this question when I read verses like these about Noah and Abraham, who lived of course before the law was given to Moses.

Noah:
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens,
If I were Noah, and God had commanded me to bring every clean beast into the ark, my first question would have been which ones are clean and which ones are not clean. Noah never asked the question - it appears that he knew which ones were the clean ones

Here's what Gill says about the verse:


Abraham:
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham obeyed God's commandments, statutes, and laws? Are these the same ones that God gave to Moses?

Was the law given before the law? Was it the same law as the one given to Moses?

Romans 2:12-15 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

The law of God is part of the image of God in each individual; in the case of rebellious Israel, i.e. Moses and the tablets, God was dealing with Israel as if they were little infants needing everything spelled out; Israel was mentally archaic and needed to be literally, by the hand, (Hebrews 8:9 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant), guided; The law, much like creation itself, has always been there. When God created the Heavens and the Earth, the Law of the lord was reflected in these creations.

Romans 1:17-25 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

<06680> hw"c' (tsavah) (845b)
Meaning: to lay charge (upon), give charge (to), command, order
Origin: a prim. root
Usage: appoint(2), appointed(4), charge(4), charged(17), charging(1), command(57), commanded(329), commandedst(1), commander(1), commanding(18), commands(6), commission(3), commissioned(4), commit(1), gave a charge(1), gave command(2), gave commandment(2), gave orders(2), give charge(2), give in commandment(1), give orders(3), given(1), given an order(1), given command(2), given commandment(1), giving(1), instructed(1), issued a command(2), laid command(1), lay down(1), ordained(m)(4), order(m)(5), ordered(5), orders(5), put in charge(1), sent to(m)(1), set in order(3).

Notes: (a) Gen 7:5; Heb 11:7

Genesis 2:16 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,

Genesis 6:22 22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God had commanded him, so he did.

~Key word: ALL
 
Scott,
Thanks for your response. That makes sense.

In the case of Noah, how do you think he knew which animals were the clean ones that he was to bring onto the ark by 7s?
 
The WS on this issue

I think it is fairly clear from the WS that the law was given to Adam.

Here are the relevant sections: WCF 19.1 "God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works...2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness, and, as such, (emphasis mine) was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai."
 
I think it is fairly clear from the WS that the law was given to Adam.

Here are the relevant sections: WCF 19.1 "God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works...2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness, and, as such, (emphasis mine) was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai."
Which reminds me of:


WCF 1:1
WCF 1.1 Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;(1) yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation; (2) therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in divers manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church;(3) and afterwards, for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing;(4) which maketh the Holy Scripture to be most necessary;(5) those former ways of God's revealing His will unto His people being now ceased.(6)​


(1) Rom. 2:14,15; Rom. 1:19,20; Ps. 19:1,2,3; Rom. 1:32; Rom. 2:1.
(2) 1 Cor. 1:21; 1 Cor. 2:13,14
(3) Heb. 1:1
(4) Prov. 22:19,20,21;Luke 1:3,4; Rom. 15:4; Matt. 4:4,7,10; Isa. 8:19,20.
(5) 2 Tim. 3:15; 2 Pet. 1:19
(6) Heb. 1:1,2

 
I think it is fairly clear from the WS that the law was given to Adam.

Here are the relevant sections: WCF 19.1 "God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works...2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness, and, as such, (emphasis mine) was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai."
Thanks. You don't happen to have the scripture references for these sections handy, do you?
 
Thanks. You don't happen to have the scripture references for these sections handy, do you?
Nevermind. Found them:

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.[1]

1. Gen. 1:26-27; 2:17; Eph. 4:24; Rom. 2:14-15; 5:12, 19; 10:5; Gal. 3:10, 12; Eccl. 7:29

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables:[2] the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.[3]

2. James 1:25; 2:8, 10-12; Rom. 3:19; 13:8-9; Deut. 5:32; 10:4; Exod. 34:1
3. Exod. 30:3-17; Matt. 22:37-40
 
Thanks. You don't happen to have the scripture references for these sections handy, do you?

Genesis 1:26-27
26 Then God said, o “Let us make man1 in our image, pafter our likeness. And qlet them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
r male and female he created them.​


Genesis 2:17
17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil lyou shall not eat, for in the day that you eat1 of it you mshall surely die.”​



Romans 2:14-15
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, xby nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is ywritten on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them


Romans 10:5
The Message of Salvation to All
5 For fMoses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that gthe person who does the commandments shall live by them.​



Romans 5:12
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as tsin came into the world through one man, and udeath through sin, and vso death spread to all men because wall sinned—​



Romans 5:19
19 For as by the one man’s gdisobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s hobedience the many will be made righteous.


Galatians 3:10
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10 For all who rely on works of the law are munder a curse; for it is written, n “Cursed be everyone who does not oabide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”​



Galatians 3:12
12 But the law is not of faith, rather r “The one who does them shall live by them.”


Ecclesiastes 7:29
29 See, this alone I found, that xGod made man upright, but ythey have sought out many schemes.​



Job 28:28
28 And he said to man,
‘ Behold, xthe fear of the Lord, that is wisdom,
and to yturn away from evil is understanding.’ ”​
 
Wtsc

I suggest that you purchase the The Law of God and The Christian conference CD's it answers that ?.
:)
 
The law was given at creation

As many others have previously said, the law has always been here. The thing that was special about the giving of the law to Moses, was the way in which it was given, not what was given. Moses was given a law that was clearly written. The law had previously been displayed in nature and conscience. The problem is that sinful men supress the truth, and deny to know that which they know to be true.

The moral law revealed in nature is the same law as that which was revealed to Moses. Even the penal sanctions are seen in nature and conscience. Notice that when Cain murders Abel, he knows what the punishment ought to be. He told God that if he was condemned to be a wanderer that whoever found him would kill him. He knew that the just retribution of violating the law against murder would be the forfeiture of his own life. This is solidified when God has to make a proclamation prohibiting the taking of Cain's life. God is making an exception, and suspending judgment in this one case. Of course the exception proves the rule, that the law in it's fullness (penal sanctions and all) where in force prior to Sinai, even from the beginning of creation, since they are displayed in nature and conscience.
 
I find it interesting that the two commandments that are expressed as positives (4 and 5) relate to creation ordinances and are pre-fall. In fact the 4th commandment references the creation. The 5th commandment relates to the natural result of "created male and female."

The negative 8 were non-issues until after the fall.
 
The law prior to the fall

I find it interesting that the two commandments that are expressed as positives (4 and 5) relate to creation ordinances and are pre-fall. In fact the 4th commandment references the creation. The 5th commandment relates to the natural result of "created male and female."

The negative 8 were non-issues until after the fall.

The previous post said says that the 4 & 5 commandments were in force prior to the fall, because they are positive commands. The remaining eight were not in force, because they are simply prohibitions (given in negative form). This is not correct.
Every law has both a positive and a negative aspect. Just because 8 of the 10 commandments are delivered in a prohibition, does not mean they do not likewise express duty. I would recommend reading the Westminster larger Catechism to see what some of the duties are for the 10 commandments. Furthermore, just because a command is a prohibition does not mean that it was not in place prior to the fall. If Adam had lied, or murdered eve, etc. would he not have sinned, even before the eating of the forbidden fruit? The thing that is different about the forbidden fruit was that it was an arbitrary command, to test whether or not Adam would obey God, just because he said it. Of course Adam would not have been as prone to, for example, murder eve, since he was created in the image of God, and that was stamped upon his conscience. The special thing about the forbidden tree has nothing to do with the tree itself. God is simply testing whether or not Adam would acknowledge the creator creature distinction and bow the knee to him, and do what he said, simply because he said it.
 
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