Was the PCA wrong to schism from PCUSA?

[pianoviolin]

History aside, I think the most important question to focus on NOW is not why groups left such-and-such a body but why they won't join with others. The schismatic spirit of not joining is perhaps worse than that of leaving (like Paul's chastisement of Peter in maintaining separation in Galatians 2).

Voluntary schism is indeed sin. It is highly wrong for people to form micro-denominations, to split because a denomination isn't as conservative as they like. We should not treat schism so lightly. Let us have unity in the essentials, charity in the non-essentials.

In the case of the PCUSA, however, the essentials (namely, the Apostle's and Nicene Creed, along with the Five Solas) were attacked so thoroughly and the denomination's abusive polity showed that it was prudent, not necessarily mandatory, to split. Yet as the PCUSA became more and more liberal over time, so did the moral case for leaving become stronger - "Come out of her, lest ye participate in her sins". But it's not a black-or-white decision (at least in the beginning), where the instant there's any amount of leftward drift one must immediately schism to avoid "communing with heretics".

The best we can have in the present is to prevent further schism and work for unity in NAPARC. Each of our denominations should maintain their distinctives and have a spirit of true (not false) ecumenism with each other.

I don't want the RPCNA to lose their distinctive EP, mediatorial kingship of Christ, or the ARP to lose its Southern heritage and marrow theology; neither do I want the PCA to lose our big tent, evangelical, missional, and diverse perspectives (although I think the left side of the tent needs to move to the right). There is a tangible diferrence between a confessional "truly reformed" southern PCA church vs. a confessional northern OPC despite both subscribing to the WCF.

The PCA is quite interesting as it's divided not only into left and right but also regionally (e.g. Gospel Reformation Network vs. National Partnership/TGC, the Koreans, Southern "truly reformed" (TR), Southern moderate-conservatives, Northern conservatives, missional urbanites, etc.) despite its strong Southern roots. You have everything from R2K (Radical Two Kingdoms) to "spirituality of the church" to missionialism/third-wayism to Wolfean Christian Nationalism.

The goal should be for:
- EPC to become more conservative/confessional and join NAPARC
- ECO to become more conservative/confessional
- PCA to become more confessional and have its "left"/RPCES wing become more conservative
- CRC to return to the NAPARC. Although not easy, this is probably one area where Reconquista could actually succeed, the CRC has been moving in a conservative direction in recent years, see here. The CRC is not quite an evangelical denomination, but it's not mainline either.

In an ideal world, the PCUSA would also at the very least become broad evangelical and eventually join the NAPARC. It's highly unlikely to happen, as you only have around 10-14 presbyteries (out of 166, or ~7%) that are broadly evangelical or moderately conservative, namely: Atlantic Korean-American, Eastern Korean-American, Midwest Korean-American, Nevada, San Diego, Beaver-Butler, Sierra Bianca, Huntingdon, Washington, Redstone, Highlands, Shenandoah, and Yellowstone presbyteries. There are pockets of relative conservatism that remain in the PCUSA (e.g. 2024 PCUSA GA denied the Koreans the right to form a caucus because the majority opposed women's ordination).

 

[Edward]

Pardon my ignorance, but what was the state of the ARPC at the time?

Too liberal for the PCA at that juncture. Women officers (deacons). That was one of the key issues that the conservatives in the PCUS had with the UPUSAs leading up to the merger. Open embrace of homosexuality wasn't even on the table in the 70s, and abortion was not yet an area of contention either - Roe v. Wade came down in 1973 shortly before the PCA was founded later that year, but it wasn't a driving force. It was a significant issue by the time the EPC split, ECO largely split over homosexuality, both years after the PCA had gone.

Why the PCA have even considered leaving for a denomination that already had women officers, and which appeared to be on the liberal path at that time.

Post automatically merged: May 4, 2025

The goal should be for:
- EPC to become more conservative/confessional and join NAPARC
- ECO to become more conservative/confessional
- PCA to become more confessional and have its "left"/RPCES wing become more conservative

What we need is a transfer portal. Trade the liberal PCA and EPC churches to ECO, conservative ECO churches to the EPC, and conservative EPC churches to PCA. Openly homosexual churches in each to the PCUSA.

 

[pianoviolin]

Too liberal for the PCA at that juncture. Women officers (deacons). That was one of the key issues that the conservatives in the PCUS had with the UPUSAs leading up to the merger. Open embrace of homosexuality wasn't even on the table in the 70s, and abortion was not yet an area of contention either - Roe v. Wade came down in 1973 shortly before the PCA was founded later that year, but it wasn't a driving force. It was a significant issue by the time the EPC split, ECO largely split over homosexuality, both years after the PCA had gone.

Why the PCA have even considered leaving for a denomination that already had women officers, and which appeared to be on the liberal path at that time.

To be 100% fair, women deacons (ordained) has never been seen as quite the same level of liberality as women ruling/teaching elders. The RPCNA, for example, has women deacons. When the RPCES joined, it was known that the RPCES allowed commissioned (non-ordained) deaconnesses, as was the practice at 10th Presbyterian in Philadelphia.

Every single Korean Presbyterian Church (KPC) denomination (in Korea) has either ordained or commissioned women deacons (someone living in Korea can correct me if I'm wrong):
- KPC-Kosin (고신) - very conservative, equivalent to OPC. Alllows commissioned deaconess.
- KPC-Hapdong (합동) - conservative, equivalent to PCA. Allows commissioned deaconess.
- KPC-Tonghap (통합) - moderate to liberal, equivalent to EPC/ECO/PCUSA. Allows ordained deaconess.
- KPC-Kijang (기장) - progressive, equivalent to PCUSA. Allows ordained deaconess.

I am not arguing for ordained deaconesses, but I think commissioned deaconesses deserve further study. The practice of women in the diaconate began in Korea since the beginning (1880s to 1910s) with PCUS and OPC missionaries seeming to approve it, and is not because conservative Koreans are radical feminists - in fact, the Korean church is often criticized for being overly partiarchical.

In the Korean-American Presbyterian Church (member NAPARC), ordained deacons are to be male, whereas there are temporary positions as follows according to the Form of Government / 교회정치:

Article 3. Temporary Officers

In certain circumstances, a local church may temporarily have unordained officers as listed below:

1. Evangelists (JundoSa): Upon the recommendation of the session, a ministerial candidate, male or female, may be examined by the presbytery for qualification for such a position. Upon approval of the presbytery, he or she may render salaried assistance to the minister.

(a) The authority of an evangelist: An evangelist may not be present at session meetings. He may, however, act as moderator of the officers meeting in an unorganized church with the consent of the moderator of the session.

(b) The qualifications of an evangelist: An evangelist is a seminary graduate or a seminarian who has sustained a qualifying examination administered by the presbytery, with a few exceptions depending on the circumstances. No written examination may be given to those who have been given a similar examination by another presbytery and to those who have graduated from the denominationally controlled seminary.

2. Kwonsas:

(a) The qualifications of a kwonsa: A kwonsa is a woman, 45 years of age or older, who has been a communicant member in good standing for a reasonable period of time, serving the church in faith, and who has been elected by a two-thirds vote in a congregational meeting.

(b) The duties of a kwonsa: A kwonsa s duties, under the supervision of the session, include visiting church members, especially those who are infirm and afflicted.

3. Acting deacons and deaconesses: The church may appoint faithful men and women, without ordination, to serve as acting deacons and deaconesses for a term of one year.

If anyone is curious about Korean church polity or customs I'd be happy to answer questions.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Separation does not equal schism.

There's a reason why the name of the PCA is the Presbyterian Church in America and not the Presbyterian Church of America.

It is no more necessary for all NAPARCh Chrches to be under one orgainizational entity than it is for Lutheran, Baptist, and Presbyterian Churches to be under one organizational entity.

The presence of distinct governning bodies does not destroy the catholicity of the Chuch, which is why the PCA does not require persons to be baptized or members of the PCA or even Reformed Churches to be admitted to the Table of our Lord. We also do not re-baptize for the same reason.

It's cute to have a Youtube channel when you're young. It's another to do the work of ministry. It's hard enough to get agreement on mission to keep the Church focused on a positive forward obedience to the Great Comission without having to argue at every turn about profound theological visions of ministry.

 

[Ploutos]

What we need is a transfer portal. Trade the liberal PCA and EPC churches to ECO, conservative ECO churches to the EPC, and conservative EPC churches to PCA. Openly homosexual churches in each to the PCUSA.

This is sort of happening already. A very conservative EPC church in my area left for the PCA last year, and I'm sure it's not the only EPC church looking at the PCA or equivalent denomination. Scott Sauls has already gone over to ECO, and Greg Johnson is trying to get into the EPC. Some PCA churches have left for the ARP or Evangel or Vanguard in recent years. "The great sort" is underway.

 

[pianoviolin]

Is voluntary schism from the church sinful?

Yes. But it may be necessary or required in some cases.
From my post above:

Voluntary schism is indeed sin. It is highly wrong for people to form micro-denominations, to split because a denomination isn't as conservative as they like. We should not treat schism so lightly. Let us have unity in the essentials, charity in the non-essentials.

In the case of the PCUSA, however, the essentials (namely, the Apostle's and Nicene Creed, along with the Five Solas) were attacked so thoroughly and the denomination's abusive polity showed that it was prudent, not necessarily mandatory, to split. Yet as the PCUSA became more and more liberal over time, so did the moral case for leaving become stronger - "Come out of her, lest ye participate in her sins". But it's not a black-or-white decision (at least in the beginning), where the instant there's any amount of leftward drift one must immediately schism to avoid "communing with heretics".

Did the PCA’s separation from the PCUSA over liberalism accelerate the PCUSA’s trend toward liberalism?

Yes.

If the schism had not occurred, could the liberalism have been overcome internally?

Unlikely.

Can it even now be overcome from within?

99.9% NO barring a miraculous work of God. I still have hope for the CRC though, as it's a "borderline" denomination (not mainline, not sideline).

 

[SolaScriptura]

We don’t need to become one denomination, nor would that be ideal. I think the fraternal connections we have via NAPARC are *ideal* and more than sufficient to communicate bona fide connection and yet they permit each denomination to retain their unique distinctives and ethos.

 

[Edward]

To be 100% fair, women deacons (ordained) has never been seen as quite the same level of liberality as women ruling/teaching elders.

Agreed, but it is much more liberal than a policy of no ordained women officers. And it's a step further down the slippery slope than commissioned deaconesses.

Well, it looks like I never hit submit on that post, so I'll just add here instead of making the software automerge

and Greg Johnson is trying to get into the EPC

I hope I'm correct in believing that the EPC won't touch him or his church with a 10 foot pole. He may be a bit too conservative for the PCUSA, but I can't see them refusing him if he heads that direction.