Watchmen released today
- Thread starter Michael Doyle
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Tripel
Puritan Board Senior
Would Christ take His bride to see ANY movie? I generally don't care for the WWJD hypotheticals because we don't know the answers.
Would Christ take His bride bowling? Would Christ take His bride to a poetry reading? Would Christ take His bride to the opera? Would Christ take his bride to KFC?
I don't see the point in trying to draw a sacred/secular line and debating about what Christ would do.
-----Added 3/6/2009 at 12:10:03 EST-----
Lawrence, If the sexual images are for entertainment, then I whole-heartedly agree. I just don't think it's quite so simple as assuming that movies are sheer entertainment. Some are, some are not.
a mere housewife
Not your cup of tea
Michael I'm glad you posted about this so that we could all be made more aware of the content (I wasn't aware of it, previous to this post either). I was relieved to read that you weren't aware of it either.
I guess an upside even to losing money already spent is that you have a great opportunity to explain to your wife and son how much you love them
I guess an upside even to losing money already spent is that you have a great opportunity to explain to your wife and son how much you love them
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
In matters of righteousness it's absolutely appropriate (bowling is not a matter of righteousness - profanity and blatant nudity and sex is). What do you think is one of the points of the passage in Ephesians? It is precisely comparing the way a man treats, nurtures, cherishes and serves his wife to the way Jesus does His church. It's the only passage that says that Christ loves the church, explicitly. And it shows us much about how love is expressed. She is presented without spot or wrinkle. Regardless of how much it makes us squirm (and I squirm a lot as I study the implications and realize how much I fail in this regard), this has to be dealt with. Simply put, men, in general, have lost this perspective and it's a very real question, regardless of whether or not one wears a WWJD wrist band.
Tripel
Puritan Board Senior
I guess I just don't see how bowling is not a matter of righteousness, but a movie is. If I go to the bowling alley, it's quite likely I will be exposed to profanity and maybe even some inappropriate attire on some women. I realize that's a bit different than a movie, but my point is that exposure to something is not the real issue--it's what you do with that exposure. Does it cause you to sin? The answer is not the same for every person in every situation.
Question: Was it sinful for the movie critic (who wrote the linked to review above) to watch this movie?
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Question for consideration: Is it certainly a sinful exercise to partake or participate in an activity if one's passion is not stirred or the flesh is not gratified by the exposure to objectionable content integrated into otherwise entertaining media?
Tripel
Puritan Board Senior
I'd say no. I listen to some music that includes language that many would say is objectionable. In no way does it gratify the flesh.
Sexual content in movies is different in that we (men) are visually stimulated--if the sexual content is displayed in a way that encourages such stimulation, then there's a problem.
I'll also add that I don't believe a short scene containing sexually explicit content necessarily condemns the movie as a whole. I've seen some that are excellent movies, but contain a 15 second unfortunate clip. That's why we have fast forward (or just look away if you're in a theater).
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
At what point is an untouched conscience a matter of a hardened heart and stiff neck?
Jeremiah 6:15
15Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jeremiah 8:12
12Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed,
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
In the time of their punishment
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jeremiah 6:15
15Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
Jeremiah 8:12
12Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed,
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
In the time of their punishment
They shall be cast down,” says the Lord.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
I haven't heard anything about this movie excpet that it portrays "superheroes" as cynical and jaded. I'm not really interested.
But what about the movie has made Christian reviewers feel compelled to walk out?
Honor
de-cool
Ya'll I think that Micheal gets the point and the rest of this thread had just made him feel bad and hurt his feelings... I think we should be careful to give our opinions and even share them passionately but not say that it's the same as this guy taking his family to a brothel. He's a great guy and is a godly leader. lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
Nothing to do with Michael here but some thoughts from a comics aficionado
Watchmen is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest graphic novel of all time and Made Time Magazine's top 100 books of all time. It's very good, well written, and a pretty good commentary of society.
The book has some graphic language and and bits of nudity. I am not excusing it but it is crudely drawn (especially the male nudity) and being that they aren't "real" people it didn't bother me too much, but it did bother me.
This movie has amped up the sex and nudity. I am going to include part of a review in closing from a pay website I subscribe to so you can get an idea of how full of sex and nudity they made this. There are some scenes in this movie that are NOT in the graphic novel and all of the added stuff is sexual and or nudity!
I don't know if there has ever been a main stream movie so full of full frontal male nudity in the history of movies, but it of course also includes female nudity which the book does very little of and what it does is no where near as blatant as it is in the film version.
I really wanted to see this as a fan of the graphic novel, but there is now no way that I will. Check this out-(VERY descriptive information!!)
SEX/NUDITY
# We see the cover of Hustler Magazine in The Comedian's place, but the view is brief and distant, but appeared to show a couple kissing (no nudity was noted, but could be present).
# On a twist of the famous V-J Day photo, a woman grabs another woman on the street and kisses her in a similar, bent-over pose. We later see that first woman and possibly the second dead in bed after that.
# A man exits a hooker's place, followed by the next man going in.
# We see some scantly clad women and stereotypically dressed gay men of the 1970s in front of Studio 54.
# We hear from Rorschach's journal, with him commenting on all of the sex and violence, and that the night reeks of bad fornication.
# Rorschach talks of heroin and child p0rnography.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full rear nudity, both in giant and then normal-size form (albeit blue-tinged, as is the case with all other views of his nudity). Laurie and Rorschach see his full frontal nudity, but we don't (at least in this scene).
# Laurie shows cleavage.
# Sally proudly shows Laurie some hand-illustrated porno magazine (possibly about Sally) that shows various sketches, including a man between a woman's legs, but we didn't note anything terribly explicit (it's a quick view of multiple panels so it's possible something's in such views).
# There's mention of Sally having had a fling with The Comedian in the past. We then see a flashback where she goes off to change behind closed doors, and is down to her 1950s era style undergarments when The Comedian walks in and tells her he knows what she needs. She then punches him, followed by him doing the same back to her several times (chest and face). He then kicks her, slams her down face-first onto a pool table (with her butt now at his crotch), and prepares to rape her from behind (he undoes his belt and/or pants and uses his foot to spread her legs). But another superhero comes in and stops The Comedian by pummeling him with punches, with The Comedian sarcastically asking if that's how that guy likes it.
# We see Dr. Manhattan in just small shorts.
# The song "I'm Your Boogie Man" has the lyrics "I'm your boogie man. I'm your boogie man. Turn me on. I'm your boogie man. I'm your boogie man. Do what you want. I'm your boogie man that's what I am. I'm here to do whatever I can. Be it early mornin,' late afternoon. Or at midnight, it's never too soon."
# We see marquee signs advertising nude women and adults movies, but only see the words and no imagery.
# As Rorschach walks by some hookers uninterested in them, one exposes her bare breasts and says it will cost him $50, but he keeps walking. That prompts her to become belligerent, saying "F*ck you" and "You f*cking homo."
# We hear Laurie's sexual sounds and then see an overhead head and shoulders view of her in ecstasy. Dr. Manhattan's hand goes up her body and a finger goes in her mouth where she sucks on it (saying it's like licking a battery), followed by another arm, and then a third and fourth (the overhead view suggesting he's performing oral sex on her below the camera shot). She then stops him, he complains that he doesn't know what stimulates her anymore, and she gets mad when she realizes this was just another manifestation of himself while another part of him was still working his lab. She complains about him still working while being in bed with her, and then sees four versions of Dr. Manhattan in the lab, all fully nude (we see full male frontal nudity on all of them). She then asks which of them was giving her a "pity f*ck."
# As Laurie comments on Dr. Manhattan becoming disassociated with normal things in life as he transcends all of that, we see him examining one of her bras as if unsure of what it is.
# We see a flashback to normal Jon and his girlfriend at the time kissing, and later hear him comment about the first time they made love. During that, we see him on top of her in bed, under the covers, in slow motion, with no nudity but movement and views and sounds of her pleasured reaction.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full frontal nudity.
# We see a flashback to Dr. Manhattan kissing a young woman, thus infuriating his girlfriend at the time.
# A prisoner angrily tells Rorschach, "I'm gonna f*ck you like I f*cked your mother."
# We see a flashback to young Rorschach checking to see if his mom, a prostitute, is okay (as she fools around with some guy while standing in her lingerie or something similar). His mom slaps his face and tells young Rorschach (about him) that she should have had that abortion.
# In a flashback, some older punks pick on young Rorschach for being the son of a prostitute. They call him a "whore" son and "retard," comment on him catching a disease from her, and one asks, "You think she'd suck my d*ck for a dollar?"
# Laurie realizes there's no future with Dr. Manhattan anymore and that Daniel likes her, so she kisses Daniel and then straddles him. There's some slight disrobing (nothing explicit) with him ending up shirtless on top of her, and they try to have sex. However, he apparently can't, with her asking what's wrong and nothing else happens at that moment. We then see what turns out to be his nightmare where the two of them are standing facing each other, kissing, fully nude (both sides of bare butts, glimpses of her bare breasts and possibly his penis). Nothing else happens as a nuclear blast disintegrates them and he wakes up. Later, she walks down into his lab to see him looking at something away from the camera, fully nude (we see his full rear nudity). We then see them dressed in their superhero outfits, with hers including a thin leotard type bottom at her crotch area, although she has something like shorts on beneath that.
# A prisoner states (about Rorschach) that he's going to tear him a new hole.
# Daniel and Laurie make out on his ship, undressing and then her having sex on top of him, fully nude (we see her bare butt and breasts, along with movement). We next see them having sex in the missionary position, with views of his thrusting bare butt, while she accidentally hits a button that shoots flames out of his ship, just as both are climaxing. We next see them in a nude embrace, post-sex, but nothing explicit (nudity-wise) is seen at that moment.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full rear nudity.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full frontal nudity.
# Sally shows cleavage.
# We see a flashback to Sally's husband being angry with her, saying that The Comedian tried to rape her in the past, and now she let him "finish the job." He then asks if she was drunk or just lonely.
# We see a bank of TV monitors showing all sorts of images (all fairly small), including one woman seemingly kissing another woman's bare breasts.
Watchmen is considered one of the greatest, if not the greatest graphic novel of all time and Made Time Magazine's top 100 books of all time. It's very good, well written, and a pretty good commentary of society.
The book has some graphic language and and bits of nudity. I am not excusing it but it is crudely drawn (especially the male nudity) and being that they aren't "real" people it didn't bother me too much, but it did bother me.
This movie has amped up the sex and nudity. I am going to include part of a review in closing from a pay website I subscribe to so you can get an idea of how full of sex and nudity they made this. There are some scenes in this movie that are NOT in the graphic novel and all of the added stuff is sexual and or nudity!
I don't know if there has ever been a main stream movie so full of full frontal male nudity in the history of movies, but it of course also includes female nudity which the book does very little of and what it does is no where near as blatant as it is in the film version.
I really wanted to see this as a fan of the graphic novel, but there is now no way that I will. Check this out-(VERY descriptive information!!)
SEX/NUDITY
# We see the cover of Hustler Magazine in The Comedian's place, but the view is brief and distant, but appeared to show a couple kissing (no nudity was noted, but could be present).
# On a twist of the famous V-J Day photo, a woman grabs another woman on the street and kisses her in a similar, bent-over pose. We later see that first woman and possibly the second dead in bed after that.
# A man exits a hooker's place, followed by the next man going in.
# We see some scantly clad women and stereotypically dressed gay men of the 1970s in front of Studio 54.
# We hear from Rorschach's journal, with him commenting on all of the sex and violence, and that the night reeks of bad fornication.
# Rorschach talks of heroin and child p0rnography.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full rear nudity, both in giant and then normal-size form (albeit blue-tinged, as is the case with all other views of his nudity). Laurie and Rorschach see his full frontal nudity, but we don't (at least in this scene).
# Laurie shows cleavage.
# Sally proudly shows Laurie some hand-illustrated porno magazine (possibly about Sally) that shows various sketches, including a man between a woman's legs, but we didn't note anything terribly explicit (it's a quick view of multiple panels so it's possible something's in such views).
# There's mention of Sally having had a fling with The Comedian in the past. We then see a flashback where she goes off to change behind closed doors, and is down to her 1950s era style undergarments when The Comedian walks in and tells her he knows what she needs. She then punches him, followed by him doing the same back to her several times (chest and face). He then kicks her, slams her down face-first onto a pool table (with her butt now at his crotch), and prepares to rape her from behind (he undoes his belt and/or pants and uses his foot to spread her legs). But another superhero comes in and stops The Comedian by pummeling him with punches, with The Comedian sarcastically asking if that's how that guy likes it.
# We see Dr. Manhattan in just small shorts.
# The song "I'm Your Boogie Man" has the lyrics "I'm your boogie man. I'm your boogie man. Turn me on. I'm your boogie man. I'm your boogie man. Do what you want. I'm your boogie man that's what I am. I'm here to do whatever I can. Be it early mornin,' late afternoon. Or at midnight, it's never too soon."
# We see marquee signs advertising nude women and adults movies, but only see the words and no imagery.
# As Rorschach walks by some hookers uninterested in them, one exposes her bare breasts and says it will cost him $50, but he keeps walking. That prompts her to become belligerent, saying "F*ck you" and "You f*cking homo."
# We hear Laurie's sexual sounds and then see an overhead head and shoulders view of her in ecstasy. Dr. Manhattan's hand goes up her body and a finger goes in her mouth where she sucks on it (saying it's like licking a battery), followed by another arm, and then a third and fourth (the overhead view suggesting he's performing oral sex on her below the camera shot). She then stops him, he complains that he doesn't know what stimulates her anymore, and she gets mad when she realizes this was just another manifestation of himself while another part of him was still working his lab. She complains about him still working while being in bed with her, and then sees four versions of Dr. Manhattan in the lab, all fully nude (we see full male frontal nudity on all of them). She then asks which of them was giving her a "pity f*ck."
# As Laurie comments on Dr. Manhattan becoming disassociated with normal things in life as he transcends all of that, we see him examining one of her bras as if unsure of what it is.
# We see a flashback to normal Jon and his girlfriend at the time kissing, and later hear him comment about the first time they made love. During that, we see him on top of her in bed, under the covers, in slow motion, with no nudity but movement and views and sounds of her pleasured reaction.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full frontal nudity.
# We see a flashback to Dr. Manhattan kissing a young woman, thus infuriating his girlfriend at the time.
# A prisoner angrily tells Rorschach, "I'm gonna f*ck you like I f*cked your mother."
# We see a flashback to young Rorschach checking to see if his mom, a prostitute, is okay (as she fools around with some guy while standing in her lingerie or something similar). His mom slaps his face and tells young Rorschach (about him) that she should have had that abortion.
# In a flashback, some older punks pick on young Rorschach for being the son of a prostitute. They call him a "whore" son and "retard," comment on him catching a disease from her, and one asks, "You think she'd suck my d*ck for a dollar?"
# Laurie realizes there's no future with Dr. Manhattan anymore and that Daniel likes her, so she kisses Daniel and then straddles him. There's some slight disrobing (nothing explicit) with him ending up shirtless on top of her, and they try to have sex. However, he apparently can't, with her asking what's wrong and nothing else happens at that moment. We then see what turns out to be his nightmare where the two of them are standing facing each other, kissing, fully nude (both sides of bare butts, glimpses of her bare breasts and possibly his penis). Nothing else happens as a nuclear blast disintegrates them and he wakes up. Later, she walks down into his lab to see him looking at something away from the camera, fully nude (we see his full rear nudity). We then see them dressed in their superhero outfits, with hers including a thin leotard type bottom at her crotch area, although she has something like shorts on beneath that.
# A prisoner states (about Rorschach) that he's going to tear him a new hole.
# Daniel and Laurie make out on his ship, undressing and then her having sex on top of him, fully nude (we see her bare butt and breasts, along with movement). We next see them having sex in the missionary position, with views of his thrusting bare butt, while she accidentally hits a button that shoots flames out of his ship, just as both are climaxing. We next see them in a nude embrace, post-sex, but nothing explicit (nudity-wise) is seen at that moment.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full rear nudity.
# We see Dr. Manhattan's full frontal nudity.
# Sally shows cleavage.
# We see a flashback to Sally's husband being angry with her, saying that The Comedian tried to rape her in the past, and now she let him "finish the job." He then asks if she was drunk or just lonely.
# We see a bank of TV monitors showing all sorts of images (all fairly small), including one woman seemingly kissing another woman's bare breasts.
the particular baptist
Puritan Board Freshman
For a moment I thought the Christian Rock band Watchmen were doing a reunion tour or something.
As for the movie I wont step foot in most pg-13 flicks nowadays. Blaspheming our Lord's name is common even in pg ones. I wonder how much longer i can keep my tv set and cable.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
How is this movie PG-13??!?!?
panta dokimazete
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
the particular baptist
Puritan Board Freshman
I didnt mean to say Watchmen was pg-13, only that most pg-13 flicks today are unbearable, at least for me.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Gratuitous sex.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
Gotcha. Thanks (out of those). I think I just misread you.
Michael Butterfield
Puritan Board Freshman
Yes, AMEN to a gecko smiley!!!!
My son and I just caught 3 yesterday and tonight we have a lizard-chasing playtime scheduled!!! None had powdered wigs though.
reformedcop
Puritan Board Freshman
Here is the deal breaker for me. Do not pass go .. Do not collect $200.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I knew I should have referenced Pergy in that post! He is just about the only one on the PB with personal gecko experience!!!
Quickened
Puritan Board Senior
Its enlightening to read these reviews. Something i dont really consider when i am watching the trailer.
Although during commercials when it shows the rated r box at the bottom of the screen it also includes the info about the nudity and sexual situations (as well as violence and language)
Although during commercials when it shows the rated r box at the bottom of the screen it also includes the info about the nudity and sexual situations (as well as violence and language)
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
You don't have to go all the way there to experience geckos. We have them all over the place. In about two months there will be baby geckoes everywhere. I can't go a day or so without shooing out a few from the bathroom, kitchen, etc. They do however keep the roach population down.
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
ALL.
If you would not go stand by the bedroom window of your neighbors watching them engage in sex because you believe that to be sinful, why would you watch it portrayed in ANY way on film?
SemperEruditio
Puritan Board Junior
I watched the movie yesterday afternoon. If I would have seen this thread I would have saved myself 3 hours and $8. I was not impressed. I was not a fan of the novel. The descriptions by the reviews are accurate but heavily exaggerated which adds to the knee-jerk reaction that has gone on in this thread.
Michael Doyle
Puritan Board Junior
To all who seem willing to impugn my character without taking into consideration something as trivial as the facts, I thought I was clear but perhaps I was not in stating I wouldnt go after examining the review thoroughly. I would therefore ask the reader a question, is this an offense so grievous that you openly smear my character before the entire community? Have you never intended on doing something only to find it was not what you thought and gone back and rethought your decision?
What is it exactly that I owe all of you? This is a forum community. I, in fun, thought it would be nice to open a forum on a comic book movie. The movie turned out to be more than meets the eye. Whoops, done!
This was a jesting position although at the time was still unconvinced as to whether or not to go as I had not ingested the review at this point
Now I had read the post and thanked Brad
Here I am taking Kim`s post seriously but attempted a little light heartedness.
I was in the process of reexamining my evening when the barrage came
People began saying things with respect to my godliness and I was getting frustrated
Here, in so many words, said I was not going nor where my wife and son.
When does it become ok to publicly crucify a brother in Christ? Not one person came to me privately to ask my intentions but thought it was right to public flogging. I am sick to death from this ****!!
To those who say I have not repented, from what exactly?? I wrongly supposed the movie was something different from what it was and had a change of heart.
What is it exactly that I owe all of you? This is a forum community. I, in fun, thought it would be nice to open a forum on a comic book movie. The movie turned out to be more than meets the eye. Whoops, done!
This was a jesting position although at the time was still unconvinced as to whether or not to go as I had not ingested the review at this point
Now I had read the post and thanked Brad
Here I am taking Kim`s post seriously but attempted a little light heartedness.
I was in the process of reexamining my evening when the barrage came
People began saying things with respect to my godliness and I was getting frustrated
Here, in so many words, said I was not going nor where my wife and son.
When does it become ok to publicly crucify a brother in Christ? Not one person came to me privately to ask my intentions but thought it was right to public flogging. I am sick to death from this ****!!
To those who say I have not repented, from what exactly?? I wrongly supposed the movie was something different from what it was and had a change of heart.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
I do not impugn any ill will toward you, brother.
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