Water into Grape Juice -- It's a Miracle!

[JoeRe4mer]

My wife and I were watching a special on TV recently about the wedding of the oldest Duggar child. A lot of discussions could be had about the content of that episode, but one in particular stands out. As many of you know, the Duggars are an incredibly conservative family, as is the family of the girl the boy married. Anyway, as they were going through all of the wedding preparations, the topic of alcohol came up. I guess someone was asking whether there would be any alcohol at the reception. So the father of the bride goes on to explain how alcohol is a bad thing, and how Jesus never drank. He said that when Scripture shows Jesus turning water into wine, it is REALLY just grape juice.

I've heard this explanation many times, and I don't buy it for a second. I think it's ridiculous quite frankly.

So my question is, how do people come up with that explanation? On what basis does one think that "wine" was not really "wine"?

I am really glad somebody brought this up. My wife and I watched the same episode and I couldn't believe the nonsense teachings that were passing for doctrine. I generally don't get frustrated by things like this but they really need to do more study before they misrepresent our Lords miracles on national television. All this grapefruit nonsense comes out of the traditions of men rather than the scripture. I remember having the same debate with a youth group leader when I was just a teenager and he used the grape juice argument as well. Its just sad that people are willing to lie instead of just admitting what we all know. YES, IT WAS WINE WITH ALCOHOL IN IT!!!!

 

[Skyler]

A substitute in the case of necessity is valid

? Where does this idea come from? I can't find any discussion in the Scriptures that would lead me to the position you espouse. One can make bread from something other than wheat for allergies, so that's sensible (and it's still bread). But substituting something other than the fruit of the vine (alcoholic or not) is not permissible. Substituting something other than water is not permissible. When is there TRULY a need to substitute something else for the juice (fermented or not) of grapes, and in the place of water? And again, where does the idea come from that free substitution is fine?

All right, then why is it permissible to substitute unfermented grape juice for the wine that they almost certainly drank? The distinction of "grape product" isn't, to my recollection, espoused in Scripture either. What if one lives in a country where grapes aren't available?

Secondly, even if that is the case, my point was that unfermented grape juice could be substituted for wine, not some other liquid, so I don't see at what you're driving.

[qoute]

and, in fact, I recall an instance where someone was baptized with sawdust rather than water because no water was available for whatever reason.

No water at all is a relative statement... and I suspect that sawdust was used because of the presupposition that one is required to be fully dunked. I can't see how they'd find sawdust acceptable if using water, as is appropriate, in a small amount, would not be acceptable.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure. Like I said, I'll see if I can find the account.

 

[Whitefield]

The distinction of "grape product" isn't, to my recollection, espoused in Scripture either.

"fruit of the vine" Matt. 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18.

 

[Rich Koster]

My wife and I were watching a special on TV recently about the wedding of the oldest Duggar child. A lot of discussions could be had about the content of that episode, but one in particular stands out. As many of you know, the Duggars are an incredibly conservative family, as is the family of the girl the boy married. Anyway, as they were going through all of the wedding preparations, the topic of alcohol came up. I guess someone was asking whether there would be any alcohol at the reception. So the father of the bride goes on to explain how alcohol is a bad thing, and how Jesus never drank. He said that when Scripture shows Jesus turning water into wine, it is REALLY just grape juice.

I've heard this explanation many times, and I don't buy it for a second. I think it's ridiculous quite frankly.

So my question is, how do people come up with that explanation? On what basis does one think that "wine" was not really "wine"?

Luke 7:33-35 blows the father of the bride's statement out of the water. Those who teach that drinking wine is a sin are effectively saying Christ sinned. Does this have a small theological dilemma attached to it?????

 

[kevin.carroll]

You know, what's interesting to me in this discussion as it pertains to the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, is that I don't hear many people argue for the use of unleavened bread. Personally I think that unleavened bread AND wine should be used.

Greco and I got into a discussion about that once. He told me unleavened bread types were sanctimonious.

 

[MrMerlin777]

... Personally I think that unleavened bread AND wine should be used.

 

[LawrenceU]

I'm also in the unleavened bread camp. But, then some people call me weird.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm also in the unleavened bread camp. But, then some people call me weird.

A pastor friend of mine is also in the unleavened bread camp. I haven't discussed that with him at length or looked at the issue of leavened vs. unleavened bread myself in quite some time.

 

[puritan lad]

Did they happen to explain how the Corinthian believers managed to get drunk off of grape juice? (1 Cor. 11:21)

 

[Whitefield]

Grape juice to wine to vinegar is a continuum. It would be interesting to see where some would draw a sacramental bracket on that line.

 

[Skyler]

The distinction of "grape product" isn't, to my recollection, espoused in Scripture either.

"fruit of the vine" Matt. 26:29; Mark 14:25; Luke 22:18.

You're right. I concede.

Although, have you ever heard of tomato wine?

 

[Rich Koster]

I think some let it go to vinegar, as least it seems that way by their facial expressions..........