We don't define the 4th commandment's requirements by our inability to keep it

[NaphtaliPress]

"Lastly, though no man can perfectly keep this commandment, either in thought, word or deed, no more than he can any other; yet this is that perfection that we must aim at; and wherein, if we fail, we must repent us, and crave pardon for Christ’s sake. For as the whole law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ (Gal. 3:24); so is every particular commandment, and namely this of the Sabbath. And therefore we are not to measure the length and breadth of it by the over-scant rule of our own inability, but by the perfect reed of the Temple (Ezek. 40:3); that is, by the absolute righteousness of God himself, which only can give us the full measure of it." [Nicholas Bownd, Sabbathum Veteris Et Novi Testamenti: or, The True Doctrine of the Sabbath (1606; Naphtali Press and Reformation Heritage Books, 2015), 8-9.

 

[Moonnerd]

Thank you for posting this Chris! I have thought the same thing for years. (I just bought that book based on this quote!) This is a non-rhetorical question: in the popular view that takes exception to the WCF, what is there that drives a person to Christ as a result of not being able to keep this commandment?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I'm not sure. Skipping the Lord's hour? Wandering thoughts during the one service they may believe they are obliged to attend? But I suspect if folks don't feel much obligation for the Lord's day, that is hardly viewed as a sin. Thanks for the order!

 

[earl40]

I'm not sure. Skipping the Lord's hour? Wandering thoughts during the one service they may believe they are obliged to attend? But I suspect if folks don't feel much obligation for the Lord's day, that is hardly viewed as a sin. Thanks for the order!

So true. Been there and still do such, though to a lesser degree now that I have come to the conviction our standards espouse.

 

[Parakaleo]

In my experience, when you talk to a non-sabbatarian, or even a sabbatarian that is fine with recreations on the Lord's Day, they will still admit the importance of corporate worship attendance on the Lord's Day. Then, when you say, "Brother you don't have a Lord's Day, you really have a Lord's Hour," they get pretty offended. The prayer is the offense would lead to godly sorrow and repentance.

 

[KGP]

"Lastly, though no man can perfectly keep this commandment, either in thought, word or deed, no more than he can any other; yet this is that perfection that we must aim at; and wherein, if we fail, we must repent us, and crave pardon for Christ’s sake. For as the whole law is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ (Gal. 3:24); so is every particular commandment, and namely this of the Sabbath. And therefore we are not to measure the length and breadth of it by the over-scant rule of our own inability, but by the perfect reed of the Temple (Ezek. 40:3); that is, by the absolute righteousness of God himself, which only can give us the full measure of it." [Nicholas Bownd, Sabbathum Veteris Et Novi Testamenti: or, The True Doctrine of the Sabbath (1606; Naphtali Press and Reformation Heritage Books, 2015), 8-9.

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[Dachaser]

Did the reformers determine of the Sabbath was the Satursay date for Isreal, or the Sunday date"Lords day" for the Church?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I don't understand the question; also a reminder for everyone, this is a long format discussion board and we do have rule #4.
4. Use Proper Grammar, Punctuation, and Capitalization
If English is not your second language, then you are expected to show other board members the courtesy of properly punctuating and capitalizing your posts. It is commonplace on the web to disregard these rules but improper grammar does not demonstrate consideration toward others who are trying to understand what you communicate. Mistakes in grammar are understandable but willful sloth may result in posts being deleted if they are consistently sloppy.

 

[Dachaser]

Are we speaking of the Saturday Sabbath God gave to Israel, or to the Sunday Lord's Day now?

As I still would see the real Sabbath as to Israel foir Saturday, and that we now can freely worship on sat/sun now...

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Are we speaking of the Saturday Sabbath God gave to Israel, or to the Sunday Lord's Day now?

As I still would see the real Sabbath as to Israel foir Saturday, and that we now can freely worship on sat/sun now...

LBC-1689, CHAPTER 22; OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP AND THE SABBATH DAY

Paragraph 1. The light of nature shows that there is a God, who has lordship and sovereignty over all; is just, good and does good to all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served, with all the heart and all the soul, and with all the might.1 But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God, is instituted by himself,2 and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imagination and devices of men, nor the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scriptures.3
1 Jer. 10:7; Mark 12:33
2 Deut. 12:32
3 Exod. 20:4-6

..........

Paragraph 7. As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he has particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him,28 which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's Day:29 and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished.
28 Exod. 20:8
29 1 Cor. 16:1,2; Acts 20:7; Rev. 1:10

Paragraph 8. The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe a holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations,30 but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.31
30 Isa. 58:13; Neh. 13:15-22
31 Matt. 12:1-13​

God changed the day, to the first day. He's the only Person who could authorize such a change, as the second sentence in the first paragraph makes clear. This is the true NT doctrine.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

There are not two Sabbaths commanded in the fourth commandment, but one day in seven, and the day of the Sabbath was changed from the seventh day to the first day of the week.

 

[Dachaser]

So theLord's Day is now our Sabbath day, but still ok to observe Saturday as such if that is ones conviction?

 

[Contra_Mundum]

So theLord's Day is now our Sabbath day, but still ok to observe Saturday as such if that is ones conviction?

What sort of question are you asking?

The normative response, based on the confessionally expressed conviction, is: if God summons us to worship him, and that on the First Day of the week, that's obligatory. It's the law of God, morally (the one-day-in-7 principle) and positively by a particular prescription.

That some worship on Saturday still is commendable this far (and no further): they obey their conscience, though it happens to be misinformed. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Better to commit to remembering the moral dictum, and fail in the positive prescription; than to ignore both.

A complicated analogy would relate to the matter of polygamy. It is morally wrong to be involved in sexual immorality, adultery or anything like it or prior to it. Thus far the moral law of the seventh commandment. Scripture does not solve for the departure from the norm of one-man/one-woman marriage for a lifetime by compelling divorce and separation from all but one of many wives. A man of many wives and concubines may not be an elder in Christ's church; but he is not put outside of the church for failing the prescription (at least, not if those marriages were contracted before conversion). Reforming cultural aberrations takes time.

 

[Gforce9]

So theLord's Day is now our Sabbath day, but still ok to observe Saturday as such if that is ones conviction?

One can meet with family or friends anytime they wish to for prayer, dinner, discussions,.. The Lord's Day is different. God calls His people to worship then. The offices, means of grace and the sacraments are in full display. Folks can meet on Saturday for the reasons mentioned above, but if one insists Saturday is just as good as Sunday, they need to be instructed out of ignorance. This is why the WSC upholds regulated worship and denounces men making up their own rules for "worship", which is or quickly leads to idolatry...

 

[Dachaser]

So you would stating here then that we should obey God in the best sense by Sunday worship, as he changed the Day based uponresurrection of Jesus, but that others could still observe their Saturday as Sabbath Day, but would be observing it in a lessor way?

For there ar some chureches that still hold to saturday worship....

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Are we speaking of the Saturday Sabbath God gave to Israel, or to the Sunday Lord's Day now?

As I still would see the real Sabbath as to Israel foir Saturday, and that we now can freely worship on sat/sun now...

David,

Please check you Private Messages Inbox:
http://www.puritanboard.com/private.php?folderid=0

We are urgently in need of some direct resonses from you.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

So you would stating here then that we should obey God in the best sense by Sunday worship, as he changed the Day based uponresurrection of Jesus, but that others could still observe their Saturday as Sabbath Day, but would be observing it in a lessor way?

For there ar some chureches that still hold to saturday worship....

Basically, yes.

I'm saying its kind and consistent with loving one's neighbor to be gracious to someone you think is wrong at certain level. Tolerance is not necessarily the same thing as compromising one's convictions.

"Seventh Day" types are wrong (as we see it) about the positive prescription pertaining to which day we are called to observe. It is morally wrong to go against anything God directs; but it's worse to flout the duty to "remember" God's holy day of meeting, than it is to misidentify the day when one is aiming at remembrance.

I hope that clarifies.

 

[Dachaser]

I do understand and will uphold the rules !