sdesocio
Puritan Board Freshman
Over the summer Im going to be conducting an experiment to see how my ministry is affected by wearing a clerical collar. I wrote up my rationale over at my blog. - A Pastoral Experiment « DeSoc.io
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N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I think that this was interesting in your article:
Being in an urban context myself, it is important how we appear to those in our 'hoods.
Being in an urban context myself, it is important how we appear to those in our 'hoods.
he beholds
Puritan Board Doctor
My husband read your blog piece last night and said that he thinks that another possible benefit is that people will feel comfortable coming up to you and sharing things/asking for help.
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
once a guest pastor wore a genevan robe at a reformed church here in Québec. 3 people walked out because it felt too Roman Catholic. I'd be curious to see how people react to a collar
I don't wear a gown currently, and I would never wear a collar-- but don't reformed people wonder why these things are called "Genevan Gowns?" It seems that "Roman Gown" would raise some eyebrows, but Genevan?? C'mon, people- if you are against them or for them- at least know the history behind the things!
wraezor
Puritan Board Freshman
Why not, Nate?
Kevin
Puritan Board Doctor
I wear mine rarely. But I have had this experience several times. People DO seek you out in public.
he beholds
Puritan Board Doctor
I hear what you are saying, but when I apply it personally I think it'd not put distance between me and my pastor. I think it might, actually, make me feel even more "welcome" to be less distant or to share concerns, etc, because I'd see him more as his office, which you are supposed to burden, rather than just a guy, who you feel you aren't supposed to burden. I've never thought about it before, but when I read your thoughts and then pictured my church, that's what came to mind.
CharlieJ
Puritan Board Junior
Now that I work at a Catholic school, I see lots of collars. The Catholic students seem very free and open with the priests, many of whom are also Augustinian friars. Some of it might be the culture of Catholicism, I don't know. I've been impressed with how comfortably the priests wear their roles, without either the awkward "I'm just a guy" self-deprecation or the cheesy salesman extroversion of many evangelical ministers. They really see themselves as office bearers.
So, I guess my remark is that it's not about whether you wear the collar, it's how you wear it.
So, I guess my remark is that it's not about whether you wear the collar, it's how you wear it.
Marrow Man
Drunk with Powder
Of course he doesn't see himself as "just a guy." He see himself as an "alter christus." Maybe that has something to do with having no problems wearing the collar.
No, thanks.
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I am not comfortable with the wearing a collar because it is so closely connected with liturgical churches. The assumption is that I would be either a Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican, etc. That's not the witness that I am trying to put out as a Reformed Presbyterian. If I told people I was a Presbyterian, and they knew anything about modern Presbyterianism, it would appear that I was a Federal Vision guy or a liberal PCUSA.
The robe in the pulpit does not have the same baggage as the collar. In my humble opinion.
The robe in the pulpit does not have the same baggage as the collar. In my humble opinion.
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Unoriginalname
Puritan Board Junior
If I saw a PCA guy in a collar that would probably be the first assumption I would make. I would also probably have a guilty until proven attitude towards the individual as well. I do not think that is what you are doing at all, but I have had to many run ins with the "we are trying to get more in touch with our catholic roots" types all of which likes collars on their pastors.
ericfromcowtown
Puritan Board Sophomore
Interesting discussion. We worshipped at a PCA church for a month last October where the pastor wore a collar. For the first 10 minutes it was "wow, he's wearing a collar, that's odd," but after that I hardly noticed it and it was a non-issue.
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
Collars on pastors are cool... Black collars with spikes, especially.
Like this?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nn_2-AUSt9w/TghiesByGAI/AAAAAAAAAmE/HuzFMx761QQ/s1600/Walrus8.jpg
MR. YUK Symbol insert here.
21st Century Calvinist
Puritan Board Junior
In Scotland, until fairly recently almost all presbyterian pastors wore clerical collars. At the time being a young whippersnapper I thought it a terrible idea- unbiblical, looks too catholic, etc. Nowadays, even in Scotland, not many pastors wear a collar.
Wearing a collar will certainly let people know who you are and what business you're about. There are worse things in this world that being thought Anglican, Lutheran or Roman Catholic. If someone sees a pastor wearing a business suit, they might assume he is trying to sell them something or do business with them. We would not be wanting that connection made with the gospel. I should certainly imagine that a collar will draw some and hopefully open the door for conversation about what is of utmost importance.
Wearing a collar will certainly let people know who you are and what business you're about. There are worse things in this world that being thought Anglican, Lutheran or Roman Catholic. If someone sees a pastor wearing a business suit, they might assume he is trying to sell them something or do business with them. We would not be wanting that connection made with the gospel. I should certainly imagine that a collar will draw some and hopefully open the door for conversation about what is of utmost importance.
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I would rather be seen as a business man. Business is a lawful calling- and a suit is not only associated with business. In LA, at least, many people wear suits.
As for prelates- it's an unlawful calling. I'd rather be misjudged a business man than misjudged a prelate.
Jus divinum.
21st Century Calvinist
Puritan Board Junior
I do agree that more than just business men wear suits.
Maybe I am just being a little slow here today but why the insults to the many faithful Anglican and Lutheran pastors of the past and present? Here is how I understand the word prelate: a bishop or other high ecclesiastical dignitary. (New Oxford American Dictionary)
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
I am not meaning to be offensive, it's just that Presbyterianism is the only biblical form of church government and I would not want to offend any of God's ordinances by having people think that I am a part of an episcopalian system. That's all.
21st Century Calvinist
Puritan Board Junior
Thanks Nathan, I too think that Presbyterianism is the most biblical form of church government. I guess that non Presbyterians would also think that their system is also biblical. And that would be a separate thread.
Perhaps all of us should remember that if we see a man wearing a clerical collar he may well be a faithful reformed pastor.
Perhaps all of us should remember that if we see a man wearing a clerical collar he may well be a faithful reformed pastor.
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
The first time I saw a genevan gown was when I first went to Oceanside URC. Danny Hyde put one on and I thought to myself, "what is this! I feel awkward being here!" I think it's a shock for people first coming to reformed churches. Now that I know a little history about the gown, it makes me wonder why more dont wear such a gown.
Unoriginalname
Puritan Board Junior
Wasn't the Geneva gown the historical attire for scholars? It was not like the reformers picked something to make it a special ministerial robe, it would seem that they picked something respectable yet common, the 1500s equivalent to a suit. I feel that the retaining of the Geneva gown in reformed circles can almost appear to make the gown a vestment, something many of the reformers were against in the first place. I feel the gown it still an appropriate choice of attire but I feel like the attitude expressed by some (but not necessarily you) that all reformed ministers should wear the gown is slightly unhealthy.
Andrew P.C.
Puritan Board Junior
The gown is anything but common, and that is the point. The reformers went away from the unbiblical teaching of the priesthood in the catholic church, including their vestments. However, they held that the minister is a unique office that must be distinguished from everyone else in the church. When they preached, they were speaking the words of God. Even puritans and post Puritan preachers wore robes. Here is an article I found simple yet helpful by Rev. Micheal Brown: Why pastors where robes.
Unoriginalname
Puritan Board Junior
Wasn't the gown common for its time? Not common in the sense of jeans and tee shirt but common for authority. It is not as if the gown was a throw back when it was first utilized but it was taking an appropriate form of attire that represented authority. Gowns meant authority because of the broader culture. However in many places today gowns are not seen outside of a pulpit. The use of a gown for preaching, because gowns are no longer found in common culture could make it appear to be a form of vestment. I hope my idea is clear, but to hopefully clarify it further I will propose a scenario. Suppose a minister in a distant non western country asks you what he should wear when he preaches, would you suggest a gown or a local form of clothing that denotes authority?
dudley
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Amen Tim and for me they are too catholic!
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