What do my friends and brothers on the PB think about RCs renouncing on conversion?

[dudley]

I had a discussion with one of the elders in my Presbyterian congregation this past week. He questioned a practice I have encouraged with Roman Catholics becoming reformed Protestants. We have had several converts in the last few years become Presbyterians after leaving the Roman catholic church. I as an ex Roman catholic assist in the inquirers class when a Roman catholic is exploring the Reformed faith and considering becoming a Protestant. I renounced Roman Catholicism, her pope and its false teachings and became a Presbyterian in 2007.

I have encouraged the other Roman catholic converts to do something similar and they have. I do because I believe that a Roman catholic needs to reject openly Roman Catholicism and her pope to be truly free and experience a true Protestant conversion after being born again by Gods amazing grace. I renounced my Roman catholic faith"and it's doctrine because it has a "Christian" appearance while not being Christian at all."

I wrote the following to the elders and the Presbyterian minister and brought it to a meeting I had to be examined by them before making a Public confession of faith a few Sundays later in the Sunday service. It simply said: "I renounce Roman Catholicism, her pope and all her false teachings which are contradictory to the scriptures and that Our Lord gave us in His commands." It was not required but I wanted to do it.

I have encouraged other Roman Catholics who are converting to do the same and they have, the latest was last Sunday. I believe we are doing what John Calvin and all the reformers did who were also Roman Catholics. I also believe it allows the ex Roman catholic to understand that his /her conversion is really coming to the true church and Gospel and leaving a false Christian church with a corrupted Gospel

What do my friends and brothers on the PB think?

 

[Rich Koster]

Did you make this declaration solely as a result of your convictions changing or because you read in a book to do something like this? Just curious.

 

[P.F.]

I think it is an excellent testimony to the gospel of Christ in contrast to that of Rome. I certainly wouldn't insist that believers must include something like that, but for those turning from a false gospel it would seem to be a truly liberating moment.

 

[dudley]

Did you make this declaration solely as a result of your convictions changing or because you read in a book to do something like this? Just curious.

I truly made the declaration because of my convictions changing. I have guided and encouraged other roman catholics to only become a Reformed Protestant because they are and were convinced of the truth of the Reformed faith as I was. I tell them to make a public acclimation of faith as a Protestant and a Presbyterian only if they truly accept the teachings and the Westmister standards and are becoming so because they have been born again into the true church of Christ!

 

[nyjbarnes]

Yeah, I think to each his own. If you feel like you needed to do that, it's certainly within you to do so. But there's certainly know scripture that makes that necessary; furthermore the conversion is spiritual...

 

[Herald]

Dudley,

If this is your conviction, then fine. If you've brought this to the attention of your elders, and the session is not of the same opinion as you, my counsel is to drop it. There really is no need to have ex-Roman Catholics renounce their old ways. Repentance from dead works and sin is part of the ordo salutis. I would not require anymore than what the Gospel calls for; repentance from sin and faith in Christ alone. Your approach may have a certain therapeutic effect, but it's really superfluous. I certainly wouldn't make an issue of it with the church, session, or presbytery. Instead of dwelling on your idolatrous past, come under the authority of your elders, and deepen your love and affection for Christ and His saints. That's my advice.

 

[dudley]

Dudley,

If this is your conviction, then fine. If you've brought this to the attention of your elders, and the session is not of the same opinion as you, my counsel is to drop it. There really is no need to have ex-Roman Catholics renounce their old ways. Repentance from dead works and sin is part of the ordo salutis. I would not require anymore than what the Gospel calls for; repentance from sin and faith in Christ alone. Your approach may have a certain therapeutic effect, but it's really superfluous. I certainly wouldn't make an issue of it with the church, session, or presbytery. Instead of dwelling on your idolatrous past, come under the authority of your elders, and deepen your love and affection for Christ and His saints. That's my advice.

I accept your advice: "Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth, not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; not by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death for their whole and sole righteousness by faith, which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God."

---------- Post added at 05:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 AM ----------

Herald you were also right when you said "Instead of dwelling on your idolatrous past, come under the authority of your elders, and deepen your love and affection for Christ and His saints. That's my advice."

I agree with you and also accept that advice. Roman catholicism is idolotrous. Leaving the Roman Catholic religion is the natural fruit of coming to Jesus. One does not become a Christian by leaving Rome. I was born again first and no longer a roman catholic in the process I became a Protestant when I left Rome.

When my eyes were opened by being born again by faith alone in Christ alone. When I was born again my allegiance was now only to Jesus Christ, not to a religion, a pope, Mary, or the sacraments.

To be a Roman Catholic is to give allegiance to a pope, Mary and the sacraments among many other things. So, when one forsakes the Roman Catholic religion and gives allegiance to Jesus Christ through His Gospel then one is no longer a Roman Catholic. You cannot have it both ways. If you are a Christian faith alone-Bible alone, etc., then you are no longer a Roman Catholic.

Very good advice Herald, thank you!

 

[JennyG]

Dudley, I can guess how joyous and freeing an experience you must have found it to use that form of words publicly before a congregation.

It was not required but I wanted to do it

-that sums it up.

Even though not required, it was only natural and generous to want to share it, not by way of making it normative - but when it had meant so much to you.

 

[dudley]

Dudley, I can guess how joyous and freeing an experience you must have found it to use that form of words publicly before a congregation.

It was not required but I wanted to do it

-that sums it up.

Even though not required, it was only natural and generous to want to share it, not by way of making it normative - but when it had meant so much to you.

Jenny you said better than I could a "joyous and freeing an experience" I am not sure all cradle Protestants can understand that. It was as if coming out of the darkness and being received into the light. It is joyous to know you have become one of the elect.

 

[JonathanHunt]

Dudley, I can guess how joyous and freeing an experience you must have found it to use that form of words publicly before a congregation.

It was not required but I wanted to do it

-that sums it up.

Even though not required, it was only natural and generous to want to share it, not by way of making it normative - but when it had meant so much to you.

Jenny you said better than I could a "joyous and freeing an experience" I am not sure all cradle Protestants can understand that. It was as if coming out of the darkness and being received into the light. It is joyous to know you have become one of the elect.

Even better to know that you ALWAYS WERE one of the elect. Praise God!

 

[Scott1]

It is a good and healthy to renounce allegiances based on sin, ignorance and falsity. I admire you for doing it, not only in word, but proving out that by God's grace, it is real with your life.

We all stumble and fall, but God promises to see us through to preserve us in Him until the end and His grace will become more apparent in our lives, over time. Not perfection, but there will be evidence of the change, because of Him.

Learning to respect authority God has placed in the church (e.g. ministers, deacons, elders) and in other contexts is part of obeying God. Understanding that they are not infallible, but God has appointed them and ordained them for your good and His Glory is but one part of growing in Christ.

 

[dudley]

It is a good and healthy to renounce allegiances based on sin, ignorance and falsity. I admire you for doing it, not only in word, but proving out that by God's grace, it is real with your life.

Thank you Scott for your understanding and support. I believe it is healthy to renounce allegiances based on sin, ignorance and falsity. Which is why I renounced Roman Catholicism and her Pope. There was a time in my life when as a Roman catholic I would never had thought I would convert to Protestantism, let alone become a Reformed Protestant and a Presbyterian who we viewed as being furthest in every way from Roman Catholicism. If you have read my posts my becoming a Protestant and a Presbyterian has been a long journey and is still evolving. I was one of the progressives seeking reforms within the Roman church and Roman Catholicism.

As I have explained in many of my posts I came to believe the current pope and people like Mother Angelica on EWTN were exemplifying what was really happening to the Roman church in the last 10 years in particular. Many of the reformers as well as the reform movements of Vatican II were being hijacked by the old right wing ultra old Roman catholic curia and many of those trying to reform the church like me and even many religious and clergy have left and in the process. Like the reformers of the Protestant Reformation we too out of conscience and utter frustration were forced to leave the Roman catholic faith. I have come to the same position as Calvin where I have renounced the Roman catholic pope, Benedict and then eventually discovered like Luther and Calvin I had no choice but to eventually renounce Roman Catholicism entirely and its teachings which I now believe are misguided and scripturally incorrect. I had a "true Protestant conversion very much like Calvin described... I no longer view her teaching on the Lords Supper and sacrament as correct and I do see many of her teachings as blasphemous to the message of the true Gospel. It hurt me to leave my Roman catholic faith and to openly renounce her and her pope. I am sure it hurt the reformers, including John Calvin who like me were at one time devout Roman Catholics. I loved the Roman church and much of her art her sacred liturgy for its beauty and it saddens me also that I had to leave her because of my conscience. I am now a Reformed Protestant theologically and a Presbyterian in faith and I do follow the Westminster standards. I can say the whole process is still evolving. But I am now a Protestant and a reformed Protestant in theology and faith and could never accept the current teachings of Roman Catholicism and its current pope the way things are now.