What do the Saints think of Yoga?

[satz]

The effects of various activities do not require one to be cognizant of them to be effectual.

What he said.

But how can any purely physical activity (stretching or some other exercise) have a spiritual or mental effect on someone?

How is this situation any different from meat offered to idols? The meat (or physical exercise in this case) is not tainted by having been associated with idolatry, if the believer uses it in an environment where the old associations are absent.

Genuine question.. I am not a yoga supporter by any means.

 

[Pergamum]

Mark, Yes I agree - this is meat offered to idols for the 21st Century it seems.

 

[cih1355]

Go to this link where John MacArthur and another pastor are interviewed about Yoga. It sounds like Yoga is much more than just exercise.

YouTube - John MacArthur on Christian & Yoga

 

[Scottish Lass]

The effects of various activities do not require one to be cognizant of them to be effectual.

Could you come up with a common example to describe this? Since I have anecdotal experience with stretching attributed to yoga, but I don't see how it had any negative effect, I'm struggling to see what you're saying. If anything, it was good for my patience because I was expected to work through the moves more slowly than in a step or circuit class.

 

[ChristianTrader]

The effects of various activities do not require one to be cognizant of them to be effectual.

Could you come up with a common example to describe this? Since I have anecdotal experience with stretching attributed to yoga, but I don't see how it had any negative effect, I'm struggling to see what you're saying. If anything, it was good for my patience because I was expected to work through the moves more slowly than in a step or circuit class.

I personally don't have a problem with just the stretching that is common to Yoga exercises. I just wouldn't call it Yoga anymore. As far as examples, I think that various things that we can listen to or watch can have negative or positive effects regardless of us understanding them fully. Here is a link to a youtube clip of a documentary on the power of music YouTube - The Power of Music - Hell's Bells 2 - with Eric Holmberg

 

[jwithnell]

I've done yoga on and off for years, though I've had some internal battles re: the thoughts mentioned here. Some of the self-calming techniques our occupational therapist has given our son is based in the physical practice. I will offer this: yoga has had an overall influence for the better in western athletic practices. Remember bobbing up and down to do stretches back in the day? Remember when stretching was primarily seen as a warm up? Now flexibility and balance are measures for fitness along with strength and endurance.

 

[Raj]

Hello from North India. We don't go for Yoga but for simple exercises of the body. To go to Yoga here, involves physical practices and need to hear the music which our ears wouldn't allow us to listen.

 

[Skyler]

Ought we to avoid modern medicine, since it's based in an atheistic worldview?

The answer is "No", because modern medicine isn't based in an atheistic worldview. All knowledge, all wisdom, all good things are based in the Christian worldview. Anything good or beneficial that other religions have mixed in with their paganism has been stolen from the Christian worldview, right?

Should we avoid the good things God has created simply because unbelievers misuse them? Or should we use those good things as God intended them to be used--in worship of and to glorify Him?

 

[kvanlaan]

So, I shouldn't use it as a synonym for "displeasing" or "annoying"?

Nope, not unless you're with a group of Dutch sailors.

So far as yoga is concerned, I would see it about as permissable as having a Bible study (good, reformed, Beeke-written) but praying by bowing and touching one's head to the floor, all while making sure you point at Mecca. You are praying to Christ, and that is good, but your actions suggest worship of a different sort, so I would put it off-limits for the believer (and I can do that, since I am the Reformd Pope).

 

[Mushroom]

This thread brings to mind an eighth-grade experience at Taipei American School. I was a completely godless pagan, unchurched and an avowed atheist. Yoga was offered in the study hall as a voluntary excersize by some guru-looking Indian chap in sari and toe-sandals. Being of the hippitude (another cromulent term) bent, I sat in on a session. I was at first aghast, and then incensed, that my American gov't funded school was allowing a religion to be taught within its hallowed religion-free halls. I went and loudly complained to the administration about this violation of the separation of Church and state. I was an arrogant young puke (and now an old one far too often). But at least consistent.

If genuflection is determined to relieve tennis elbow, would we de-romanize it so we could practice it? Just curious.

 

[Pergamum]

Under the rationale for not doing The Stretches Commonly Known as Yoga (SCKAY), the christian would also need to guard against taking karate, playing card games with your kids, and many other activities.

 

[proregno]

Yoga: no.

Yogurt: yes !

 

[Skyler]

Under the rationale for not doing The Stretches Commonly Known as Yoga (SCKAY), the christian would also need to guard against taking karate, playing card games with your kids, and many other activities.

Let's call it "Stretches Ordinarily Known As Yoga (SOKAY)".

On that note, where exactly does the dispute lie here? Is the disapproval of yoga based upon its pagan origins or its current use by pagans as part of their worship? Where in the Bible do we find a basis for either one?

Also note that the comparison with a Bible study is somewhat inaccurate, because we're not talking about worshipping God using pagan customs. If we bow down to an idol while claiming to pray to the true God, we are committing idolatry--not because other pagans bow down to idols, but because God forbade bowing down to idols.

 

[Pergamum]

SOKAY is okay!

 

[Marrow Man]

What do the Saints think of Yoga?

I always admired his commitment to the good side of The Force.

 

[kvanlaan]

Also note that the comparison with a Bible study is somewhat inaccurate, because we're not talking about worshipping God using pagan customs. If we bow down to an idol while claiming to pray to the true God, we are committing idolatry--not because other pagans bow down to idols, but because God forbade bowing down to idols.

Hey man, I'm just praying in a cool direction and praying in a certain way, both as adiaphora as yoga. No idols involved! You fold hands, I bow and touch my forehead to the ground. M'KAY?

 

[Skyler]

Hey man, I'm just praying in a cool direction and praying in a certain way, both as adiaphora as yoga. No idols involved! You fold hands, I bow and touch my forehead to the ground. M'KAY?

Bowing down... to... Mecca?

 

[Pergamum]

I propose that we as Puritans refuse to accommodate a pagan system of time keeping. We will now only refer to Monday as 2-day, tuesday as 3-day, wednesday as 4-day etc and refuse to mention those pagan Gods Wodin, Freya, Tyr,

And January will become 1-month, February 2-month so that we must not mention pagan Roman God's or rulers:

January (Janus's month)


February (month of Februa)


March (Mars' month)


April (Aphrodite's month)


May (Maia's month)


June (Juno's month)


July (Julius Caesar's month)


August (Augustus Caesar's month)




September (Septimus month)




October (month of octo “eight”.) Octavius'




November (novem month)




December (decem month)

Februa was a pagan purification ritual, Mar's was the Roman God of War, etc.



Also, karate must go.

We must never eat anything that is purposely halal because such things acknowledge the concept of halal-ism and its underlying religious implications.

 

[Skyler]

Um, Pergy, the Quakers already used that weekday-naming system. Doesn't their mysticism disqualify them?

 

[JML]

I propose that we as Puritans refuse to accommodate a pagan system of time keeping.

I've considered it. It would be very difficult considering how much they are used in the world we live in however. Monday as 2-day would be kind of confusing though. Sounds too much like "today." And yes, I know you were being sarcastic.

 

[Pergamum]

Jonathan, WOW.... thanks for the Quaker info. But I guess also then I cannot eat Quaker oats if they are that mystic. Or corn flakes since they were made by one of the Oneida utopian cult leaders.


I see this as adiaphora. I suppose, however, we could tighten the definition and call what is permitted as "yoga-like stretching" to distinguish it from "Full yoga with associated pagan heresies" or FYWAPH, but if the pull of yoga is still too great, we should forego all exercise whatsoever.

If foods sacrificed to pagan gods is adiaphora, surely this is as well, we need not be stricter than the Apostle Paul.

 

[seajayrice]

My wife has taught yoga utilizing traditional poses sans the visualization, mantra and general weirdness. It is stretching and breathing, those are good things. As far as I discern, no ill effects for her or her students. My little girls can do the poses too and are comforted knowing they have many lifetimes to learn all they need to know about the practice.

 

[kvanlaan]

They actually use the 1-day 2-day and 1-month 2-month system in China. Apparently the Commies are holier than all y'all.

I just can't see this as adiaphora - you look at what the Hindus say, you look at what Mohler says, and then still say it's adiaphora?

 

[Skyler]

I just can't see this as adiaphora - you look at what the Hindus say, you look at what Mohler says, and then still say it's adiaphora?

No, I look at what the Bible says, and then I say it's adiaphora.

If you can't see it as adiaphora, then submit to God and don't do it. Your conscience isn't warning you about it because it hates you. If you are concerned about others doing it, share your concern with them (as you have done here, for which I thank you) and then pray and trust the Holy Spirit to make the matter clear to His children. You don't have to convince them; God is the one who changes hearts.

 

[ChristianTrader]

I just can't see this as adiaphora - you look at what the Hindus say, you look at what Mohler says, and then still say it's adiaphora?

No, I look at what the Bible says, and then I say it's adiaphora.

If you can't see it as adiaphora, then submit to God and don't do it. Your conscience isn't warning you about it because it hates you. If you are concerned about others doing it, share your concern with them (as you have done here, for which I thank you) and then pray and trust the Holy Spirit to make the matter clear to His children. You don't have to convince them; God is the one who changes hearts.

Do you believe in general revelation? If so do you believe there is anything in general revelation that is not explicitly in the Bible?

CT

 

[Pergamum]

Is a series of stretches without accompanying prayer or philosophy more serious than foods set before idols and sacrificed?

If the issue of foods offered to idols is counted as adiaphora by Paul, than surely yoga-ish stretching is adiaphora.

 

[ChristianTrader]

Is a series of stretches without accompanying prayer or philosophy more serious than foods set before idols and sacrificed?

If the issue of foods offered to idols is counted as adiaphora by Paul, than surely yoga-ish stretching is adiaphora.

The argument would have to go something along the lines of handling Uranium. It matters not what you think of it, what you wish it to be, it has fatal effects. Nothing in the Bible says it has fatal effects etc. Saying it is just a rock does not change anything. Is that the case here, not sure but no reason to mock the belief that there can be certain problems.

CT

 

[kvanlaan]

No, I look at what the Bible says, and then I say it's adiaphora.

If you can't see it as adiaphora, then submit to God and don't do it. Your conscience isn't warning you about it because it hates you. If you are concerned about others doing it, share your concern with them (as you have done here, for which I thank you) and then pray and trust the Holy Spirit to make the matter clear to His children. You don't have to convince them; God is the one who changes hearts.

Agreed - and I think that Mohler represents a clear Biblical position on it, and the Hindus show us the true meaning of what we're doing while 'stretching' in the lotus position.

It is indeed the HS that makes it clear and changes hearts, but to say that I tried to 'witness' to a coworker because I once invited him to my church is simply not enough. If I truly feel that this thing is evil and feel that it is not for believers, I will spend a lot more effort and time on making that clear to other believers, no matter how stubborn they want to be. It is love for the brethren and a fear for their souls that ultimately drives the conversation, not whether or not I can 'win' a thread.

 

[Scottish Lass]

Is a series of stretches without accompanying prayer or philosophy more serious than foods set before idols and sacrificed?

If the issue of foods offered to idols is counted as adiaphora by Paul, than surely yoga-ish stretching is adiaphora.

The argument would have to go something along the lines of handling Uranium. It matters not what you think of it, what you wish it to be, it has fatal effects. Nothing in the Bible says it has fatal effects etc. Saying it is just a rock does not change anything. Is that the case here, not sure but no reason to mock the belief that there can be certain problems.

CT

Can we analogize something that is physically dangerous with something that is spiritually dangerous? I'm not sure we can. We all agree uranium is dangerous regardless of what we know about it. But if I know nothing of the origins and/or spiritual overlay that Hindus put on certain movements, I fail to see how putting my hands and feet on the floor at the same time is spiritually dangerous. It may be an unattractive posture, and not one for mixed company, but mysticism doesn't magically seep into my soul because I've assumed that position.

We critique the idea of some bookstores and whatnot for taking a rock or a t-shirt and emblazoning a Christian slogan on it as if that makes the item or owner more Christian, etc. The ability to stretch my body existed before the Hindus did and certainly before they systematized a pattern of movements.

 

[Pergamum]

No, I look at what the Bible says, and then I say it's adiaphora.

If you can't see it as adiaphora, then submit to God and don't do it. Your conscience isn't warning you about it because it hates you. If you are concerned about others doing it, share your concern with them (as you have done here, for which I thank you) and then pray and trust the Holy Spirit to make the matter clear to His children. You don't have to convince them; God is the one who changes hearts.

Agreed - and I think that Mohler represents a clear Biblical position on it, and the Hindus show us the true meaning of what we're doing while 'stretching' in the lotus position.

It is indeed the HS that makes it clear and changes hearts, but to say that I tried to 'witness' to a coworker because I once invited him to my church is simply not enough. If I truly feel that this thing is evil and feel that it is not for believers, I will spend a lot more effort and time on making that clear to other believers, no matter how stubborn they want to be. It is love for the brethren and a fear for their souls that ultimately drives the conversation, not whether or not I can 'win' a thread.

Thank you for your concern and love for your brethren.