What do y'all make of these "Eucharistic miracles" associated with the Catholic Church

Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by Anglicanorthodoxy, Jun 22, 2017.

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  1. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Take it a step further: what is natural? A lot of conservatives agree with Hume on what constitutes natural (and no violations of it, mind you).

    When we talk about "nature," do we have in mind the Newtonian mechanistic worldview or the take of Einstein, Heisenberg, etc.?
     
  2. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    O would agree that the Devil can do "false miracles", and can do deceiving acts in the occult, but that there would not be any Miracles being done in the Church of Rome that would be the same class as done by Jesus and his Apostles, as the Holy Spirit cannot condone false theology and a false Gospel message.
     
  3. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    Supernatural beings, such as Angels and Demons do exist and operate on different levels of reality than us in flesh and blood bodies though.
     
  4. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    That's not what I am saying (though I agree with the proposition). The supernatural doesn't exist independent of God's will.
     
  5. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    Yes, as even when and if Satan or demons do anything, still has to be allowed by God period.
     
  6. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    So for instance are you suggesting these supernatural beings can and move natural objects around naturally that we can see, and are sent by God to do such?
     
  7. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Satan is a beings who is active though the only thing we see is the result of the work he has done in the garden in my opinion. So I can say with no qualification that because of the fall that I am responsible %100 for all of my sin as James says specifically.....
    "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed".....To think satan sits on a persons shoulder like some kind of imp whispering in their ear is simply superstitious.
     
  8. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    God can cause people to experience a delusion, yes. He also sent "supernatural beings" to delude others.
     
  9. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    0 The Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab to go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said this while another said that. 21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 The Lord said to him, ‘How?’ And he said, ‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ Then He said, ‘You are to entice him and also prevail. Go and do so.’ 23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; and the Lord has proclaimed disaster against you.”
     
  10. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    So we have a deceiving spirit somehow causing a prophet directly to speak? How exactly does this happen? Mind manipulation, whispering a suggestion into the ear, or some other way? I ask because I am curious how exactly this happens in your opinion. :)
     
  11. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    (Deu 13:1) If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
    (Deu 13:2) And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
    (Deu 13:3) Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
    (Deu 13:4) Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
    (Deu 13:5) And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
    (Deu 13:6) If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
    (Deu 13:7) Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
    (Deu 13:8) Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
     
  12. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Yahweh didn't go into detail.
     
  13. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Oh I agree. :) Though if one attempts to answering my questions I asked one would see the folly in thinking in a superstitious manner. (edit)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  14. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    I was simply referencing the Bible. I hope that isn't superstitious. For the record I think the OP is a hoax. Folk Catholicism is superstitious..
     
  15. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    Earl, how do you explain the acts done by Pharaoh's magicians, such as turning staves into snakes, or turning waters into blood (Ex. 7)?
     
  16. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Have you ever seen Penn and Teller? :)
     
  17. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    No, sir, but I've read the Bible:
    Exdodus 7 & 8:
     
  18. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    I understand, though I doubt we agree on the mode in how God put words into the false prophets mouths. Not to say I know but what I do hold to rather dogmatically is that it was not by a small devil sitting on the shoulder or any type of whispering suggestion into the ear or mind.
     
  19. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    I'm fairly certain no one here holds that view, though Jesus does use that language from time to time (Satan entered your heart, etc)
     
  20. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Just to let you to know I have read this many times. :) We simply disagree in what kind of power satan has along with his angels, which includes humans.
     
  21. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    I wish you were correct but I strongly suspect many think satan literally whispers or plants suggestion into peoples minds.
     
  22. TylerRay

    TylerRay Puritan Board Senior

    Calvin on 2 Thessalonians 2:
    On Exodus 7 & 8:
     
  23. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    Oh I agree Pharaoh's magicians deceived many into thinking they could duplicate what God did. Be not be "enhanced" into thinking such. :)
     
  24. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    So was it just sleight of hand? Did they pull a cobra out of their robe? That's not how the narrative reads.
     
  25. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    I think the mechanism of those majicks (be it natural, or supernatural) is deliberately left in the shadows. It is arcane, and forbidden. Part of what we are called to draw back from (religiously, I mean; fooling the eye for entertainment is innocuous) is vain curiosity.

    I'm content to know that Satan was on the side of the Egyptians; and whether they trick to deceive (Is.25:11) or rely on a preternatural supply (a promise to the conjuror that eventually proves deceitful to him), the business is lying and from the darkness.
     
  26. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Professor

    I hear you and understand what you are saying. That is exactly how many read such and assume that they (the magicians) can do what God does.
     
  27. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    God did a miracle, God allowed satan to do one, as the snake from God ate the ones from satan.
     
  28. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    The text though seems to indicate that the magicians did use power of Satan, magic, to do something in a real physical sense.
     
  29. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Doctor

    Satan still wields that great power bestowed upon Him by God at his creation though.
     
  30. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Right. I was trying to elicit that response from Earl.
     
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