What is the purpose of the millennium according to historic premillennialism

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PuritanCovenanter

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Also David, in your previous assertion that the supposed eartly millennium sacrifices will be set up for a memorial of the work of Christ is non-sense. Christ Jesus himself already gave us the cup and the bread for that. Do we need to study the significance and longevity of that?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
David, You still have not answered these 4 questions properly. I see you tried to answer one. Please answer them.

@ Dachaser
1)Could you show me any Scripture that proves animal sacrifices will be re-introduced as ceremonial memorial sacrifices on the new earth?

2)Where does it teach in the New Testament that we should (or can) sacrifice animals to commemorate Christ's death?

3)Are Christ’s hands and feet not a satisfactory enough reminder of the cross for the inhabitants of the new earth?

4)Does Hebrews 10:1 not make clear that the Jewish ceremonial law was “a shadow of good things to come” not ‘good things that have been’? The ceremonial law is never depicted as looking back but always forward.

St. Paul gives us what will happen and there is no earthly set up as you describe in his theology.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
I will try to give my answers here, but just curious, as to why Premils like myself seem to always get shouted down here, as when we give what we believe scriptures are teaching get put down?
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
do in evangelism and why we shouldn't look for a golden utopia on this side of the final consummation.

Agreed.
I was heavily involve in this kind of study over three decades ago because I was also surrounded by Premil thinking. It was invading sermons with very poor application

I don't know about your personal experience, but in my personal experience I have heard 1 sermon on eschatology in 3 decades, and this includes both amil churches and SBC churches.
. Especially when you live amongst others who read booklets and evangelized based upon the latest Hal Lindsey book, It also set the study of scripture to focus in a different way. This removes the wasted time with the latest Clarence Larkin and Premil charts to focusing on the things that do matter, Christ's Mediatorial Kingship and Kingdom.

That's a red herring. Every premil guy I have read with the exception of Mark Hitchcock has condemned the date-setting "chart" mindset.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Also David, in your previous assertion that the supposed eartly millennium sacrifices will be set up for a memorial of the work of Christ is non-sense. Christ Jesus himself already gave us the cup and the bread for that. Do we need to study the significance and longevity of that?
This explains it quite real from a premil viewpoint
https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...-do-the-sacrifices-return-in-ezekiels-temple/
https://www.gotquestions.org/millennial-sacrifices.html
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
That's a red herring. Every premil guy I have read with the exception of Mark Hitchcock has condemned the date-setting "chart" mindset.
It isn't just the date setting mindset. It is the wasted time of making and encouraged studying of charts based upon the assumptions and interpretations of the book of Revelation based upon pour genre misapplication and poor hermeneutics as well as misapplied passages from Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.
 

Jeri Tanner

Administrator
Staff member
I haven't considered the premil position in a while, since I've been amil for quite a few years now, but thinking about the prospect of the glorious return of our Lord to a world still filled with wickedness and able to plot and gnash its teeth against him leaves me aghast (I find). "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom..." (2 Timothy 4:1); "For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, "Peace and safety,' then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."; "...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). What in the world does a premil do with those verses?
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Also David, I gave you the Lord's supper in full view as the Lord's means to bring into remembrance of his work. Those sights said exactly what I thought they would and it is poor... NO, BAD ASSUMPTION that the sacrificial system will be a good reminder. To replace the cup and bread is blasphemous in my estimation. It is what our LORD instituted. No where has he said we will go back to the weak and beggarly shadows. That is absurd. We are warned from doing that.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
It isn't just the date setting mindset. It is the wasted time of making and encouraged studying of charts based upon the assumptions and interpretations of the book of Revelation based upon pour genre misapplication and poor hermeneutics as well as misapplied passages from Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, etc.

And no one here has done that. I've simply set forth some exegetical observations, noted some difficulties, and that's that. Your concerns are justified by misplaced. The people who need to hear that are probably the ones making "Boomer Evangelical Tours for Israel."
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
but thinking about the prospect of the glorious return of our Lord to a world still filled with wickedness and able to plot and gnash its teeth against him leaves me aghast (I find).

Every position, except some varieties of postmillennialism, has Jesus returning to a world filled with evil.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
And no one here has done that.
You must be reading a different thread. Maybe I haven't been clear enough. It isn't the charts alone. The charts are based upon teaching. It is the teaching that the charts signify. Just type in Chart of Revelation or of the Bible and you will get a load full of stuff that is overly full of assumption and misapplied scripture. It is mind boggling. It is a way for the Christian to be misdirected from Messiah the Prince's Mediatorial Kingdom and Kingship. It is a poor Christology. Christology is the root doctrine effected by this stuff.
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman
Depends on the school of thought. For a dispensationalist everything is Israel. Leaving them aside, it just depends on the commentator. An exegete like Robert Mounce would say, "This is what I see the text saying. As to secret purposes, I leave that to others."
How can any of that be when God himself is ruling over Mankind in A direct fashion then?

How possibly can you argue that? How can you say there will be no sin, corruption and death when your millennial kingdom is overrun by countless religious phonies (as the sand of the sea), who obviously feign their submission to Christ, yet when Satan appears, they swiftly rally to his side? This is insane! Also, you have the greatest battle in history at the end of the pre-millennial millennium, when the wicked under the command of Satan surround Christ and the glorified saints as a sand of the sea. Your millennium of bliss is a total bust!

How can these billions of mortal wicked not sin or die? Also, you have the lion and lamb enjoying millennial bliss until the slaughter truck pulls up to drag the lambs, goats and bullocks to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice in the presence of Jesus. Amazingly, for the first time in history they have no fear of their traditional predators, just supposedly righteous millennial God-ordained priests coming for them with sharp knives.

Sin and death are everywhere in your supposed future age of aquarius.
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman
Also David, in your previous assertion that the supposed eartly millennium sacrifices will be set up for a memorial of the work of Christ is non-sense. Christ Jesus himself already gave us the cup and the bread for that. Do we need to study the significance and longevity of that?

Exactly, and there is a termination point for that remembrance.

1 Corinthians 11:24-26 declares, “when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.”

We no longer need to look back when He appears because we will be looking into the face of the glorified victorious Christ.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
David, You give me an explanation and back it up by scripture. You. You can do that by answering the four questions.
Those sources that I cited were giving in better fashion what my thoughts are in regards to the questions posted, as I do think that those of us here who are not Amil seem to be getting undue burden on proving our points in regards to the Second Coming of the Lord.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
I haven't considered the premil position in a while, since I've been amil for quite a few years now, but thinking about the prospect of the glorious return of our Lord to a world still filled with wickedness and able to plot and gnash its teeth against him leaves me aghast (I find). "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom..." (2 Timothy 4:1); "For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, "Peace and safety,' then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."; "...when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day." (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). What in the world does a premil do with those verses?
b
You are not quite understanding the Premil position, as we do not see it in that fashion, for even your AMil position rightly would state that when Jesus comes back, most of the world will be in open rebellion against Him and His ways, for is it not the truth that all positions on the end times would have Jesus coming back to a world and a race who pretty much has decided to attempt to shut God out of their affairs?
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Also David, I gave you the Lord's supper in full view as the Lord's means to bring into remembrance of his work. Those sights said exactly what I thought they would and it is poor... NO, BAD ASSUMPTION that the sacrificial system will be a good reminder. To replace the cup and bread is blasphemous in my estimation. It is what our LORD instituted. No where has he said we will go back to the weak and beggarly shadows. That is absurd. We are warned from doing that.
Again, i was asked to address what my position was as a premil , so why the continual put down of my position, as this is really due to how one understands the prophetic elemt in scripture, as to how much is spiritually and how much is literal fulfillment?
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman

We cannot debate these writers here. So you need to defend the teaching you receive from your Premil influencers:

How do you reconcile the following?

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, "this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Hebrews 10:18 says, "there is no more offering for sin."

Hebrews 10:26 says, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

Why would any Bible believing Christian advocate the restart of the pointless useless old covenant system when Christ superseded it which an effective and superior and final system - the new covenant?
 

Jeri Tanner

Administrator
Staff member
b
You are not quite understanding the Premil position, as we do not see it in that fashion, for even your AMil position rightly would state that when Jesus comes back, most of the world will be in open rebellion against Him and His ways, for is it not the truth that all positions on the end times would have Jesus coming back to a world and a race who pretty much has decided to attempt to shut God out of their affairs?
Your position has evil persisting after he comes. That's the difference. The Scriptures I quoted show that his coming brings instant destruction to all his and our enemies. Do you interpret those Scriptures differently? Please read them again and let me know.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Every position, except some varieties of postmillennialism, has Jesus returning to a world filled with evil.
That is indeed true, as that would be a main reason for the premil position, as we do not see the Lord Jesus having all of his enemies being put down under Him until that glorious Messianic Age.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
You must be reading a different thread. Maybe I haven't been clear enough. It isn't the charts alone. The charts are based upon teaching. It is the teaching that the charts signify. Just type in Chart of Revelation or of the Bible and you will get a load full of stuff that is overly full of assumption and misapplied scripture. It is mind boggling. It is a way for the Christian to be misdirected from Messiah the Prince's Mediatorial Kingdom and Kingship. It is a poor Christology. Christology is the root doctrine effected by this stuff.
I do not see at all how one view upon the Person of Jesus is affected by how they view Eschatology!
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman
b
You are not quite understanding the Premil position, as we do not see it in that fashion, for even your AMil position rightly would state that when Jesus comes back, most of the world will be in open rebellion against Him and His ways, for is it not the truth that all positions on the end times would have Jesus coming back to a world and a race who pretty much has decided to attempt to shut God out of their affairs?

Yes, but Christ does not come to set up more of the same. He is coming to destroy all sin, rebellion, corruption, death and Satan. The Premil millennium is a disaster. It is just a rerun of our age. Rather than the Premil new earth being a progressively glorious age (as they like to portray), it regressively degenerates into turmoil, tears and tragedy. Rather than the wicked and wickedness being subjugated, the opposite occurs – they prosper and increase.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
How possibly can you argue that? How can you say there will be no sin, corruption and death when your millennial kingdom is overrun by countless religious phonies (as the sand of the sea), who obviously feign their submission to Christ, yet when Satan appears, they swiftly rally to his side? This is insane! Also, you have the greatest battle in history at the end of the pre-millennial millennium, when the wicked under the command of Satan surround Christ and the glorified saints as a sand of the sea. Your millennium of bliss is a total bust!

How can these billions of mortal wicked not sin or die? Also, you have the lion and lamb enjoying millenniaat all of nature has the curse lifted from creation at time of Second Coming, whem the saints will be glorifiedl bliss until the slaughter truck pulls up to drag the lambs, goats and bullocks to the temple in Jerusalem for sacrifice in the presence of Jesus. Amazingly, for the first time in history they have no fear of their traditional predators, just supposedly righteous millennial God-ordained priests coming for them with sharp knives.

Sin and death are everywhere in your supposed future age of aquarius.
I see that you are still misunderstanding the classic premil position, as we would hold that the creation/nature itself will have the curse placed upon it by God lifted at time of Second Coming, when the saints are glorified, and so that will indeed be the timne foretold when children shall handle snakes, lions and lambs lie down together. The end time rebellion is when God shows to us that a perfect environment does not mean all is well, as a multitude will abide by obeying Jesus due to Him having rod of iron, but their hearts are still far from him, as shown by final rebellion. Jesus knows that those still of the flesh can be tempted, so satan shut away for all but end of His reign!
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Your position has evil persisting after he comes. That's the difference. The Scriptures I quoted show that his coming brings instant destruction to all his and our enemies. Do you interpret those Scriptures differently? Please read them again and let me know.
His coming will end Armageddon and cause massive deaths, but there shall be survivors to enter into his Kingdom rule.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
We cannot debate these writers here. So you need to defend the teaching you receive from your Premil influencers:

How do you reconcile the following?

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, "this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Hebrews 10:18 says, "there is no more offering for sin."

Hebrews 10:26 says, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

Why would any Bible believing Christian advocate the restart of the pointless useless old covenant system when Christ superseded it which an effective and superior and final system - the new covenant?

We cannot debate these writers here. So you need to defend the teaching you receive from your Premil influencers:

How do you reconcile the following?

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, "this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Hebrews 10:18 says, "there is no more offering for sin."

Hebrews 10:26 says, "there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

Why would any Bible believing Christian advocate the restart of the pointless useless old covenant system when Christ superseded it which an effective and superior and final system - the new covenant?
Where are you getting this falsehood that those of us advocating for the premil position see the OT sacrifices offered up sins being reestablishment of Christ? We would see them as being memorials to what he already has done for His redeemed, under the scriptures that you cited, and not as a means to have sins forgiven or as a means of salvation.
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman
That is indeed true, as that would be a main reason for the premil position, as we do not see the Lord Jesus having all of his enemies being put down under Him until that glorious Messianic Age.

He is ruling over them now. He is putting them down now. One by one they are under His feet! 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his Coming. Then (or eita or thereupon) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down (or katargeésee or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.”

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 tells us that “all rule and all authority and power” are finally “put down” or katargeésee or abolished at the “Coming” or parousia of the Lord, which is, as we have established, confirmed in the next sentence as “the end.” The kingdom of God is finally and eternally presented “up,” whereas the kingdom of darkness is finally and eternally “put down.” It is this all-consummating last day that ushers in the end (or completion) of all things.

Paul reinforce his point in regard to the concluding nature of Christ’s return, and how it spells the termination of death and rebellion, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: “For [Gr. gar or seeing] he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ‘he hath put’ (aorist active indicative) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be [Gr. hupotageé] subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the Second Coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:25-28).

After telling us that Christ’s Coming sees the termination of the wicked and their evil operations, the writer tells us that Christ’s reign over His enemies must continue until this climactic point. Whilst “all power” is now assuredly given unto Christ “in heaven and in earth” (Matthew 28:18) through His life, death and resurrection, and whilst through this victorious work “he hath put all things under his feet” in a sovereign manner, we have not yet seen the final subduing of wickedness. This comes at the Second Coming of the Lord.

Paul is simply reinforcing the thought that he just stated about the climactic Coming of Christ. It is the time “when he shall have put down (or abolished) all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Corinthians 15 verses 24 and 28 repeat the same all-consummating truth.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Yes, but Christ does not come to set up more of the same. He is coming to destroy all sin, rebellion, corruption, death and Satan. The Premil millennium is a disaster. It is just a rerun of our age. Rather than the Premil new earth being a progressively glorious age (as they like to portray), it regressively degenerates into turmoil, tears and tragedy. Rather than the wicked and wickedness being subjugated, the opposite occurs – they prosper and increase.
How can there be a disaster when the Lord Jesus Himself is the ruler and the One administering justice in that time? Is God somehow not able to make it work as it should be, especially after Jesus has lifted the curse of the Fall upon creation at His returning?
 

sovereigngrace

Puritan Board Freshman
Where are you getting that those holding to premil view the offerings as being exactly same fashion as those done under the OC were? As we wou

Where are you getting this falsehood that those of us advocating for the premil position see the OT sacrifices offered up sins being reestablishment of Christ? We would see them as being memorials to what he already has done for His redeemed, under the scriptures that you cited, and not as a means to have sins forgiven or as a means of salvation.

Once again, where does it teach this in the Bible? It doesn't matter what the Premil books say, where does thee Book teach that? Could you show me actual Scripture that proves animal sacrifices will be re-introduced as memorial sacrifices on the new earth?
 
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