What percentage of time should a pastor spend in study and in visiting members

[Pergamum]

I talked to a pastor tonight that prided himself in spending close to 30 hours studying for his sermons every week.

He told his church when he got the call that he would not be available for frequent visitation, but in order to be hired, the church would have to give him 30 hours per week of uninterrupted study time and that he would not be frequently visiting his congregation. "If they are on their death bed, I will visit them...but otherwise, don't bother me..."


This struck me as weird and a displacement of priority.

Even though the public, corporate preaching of the Word is a priority for the pastor, a strong minority of his time ought to be in visiting his people.

It seems that many pastors are not very pastoral and are almost entirely preachers but not pastors.




Thoughts?

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don't think it is wise to give an across the board prescription as to "how much time" should be spent - or what percentage of time should be spent - on the various activities involved in pastoral ministry. Obviously, "enough" time needs to be given to study and sermon preparation, but also "enough" time needs to be spent with the flock.

I think one's ability to do research efficiently and expeditiously as well as craft the message needs to factor into how much time is needed. I don't "need" 30 hours of work to prepare for a 25 minute message.

What should also factor into the equation is the congregation's needs... is this an older congregation with many infirm folks? Or is it a young suburban flock full of vigorous people in their prime?

 

[ewenlin]

It also depends on the make up of the church like what Ben said. I do think its not wrong for that pastor to do that provided there's another pastor who is fulfilling that role. If he is being hired as a teaching/preaching pastor to free another up to be more focused on visitations.

But again, if a member is facing certain crisis and no pastor/elders will attend to that, its just... not right. If he's the sole pastor then he'll just have to balance his time then. Can't be too heavenly minded and be of no earthly use.

Back at my church we have 2 pastors that alternate on the preaching so while 1 has the whole week of 30 hours with no visitation obligations to prepare for sunday sermon, there's another who's available to attend to the congregation during the week.

How does that pastor keep tabs on what's going on in his congregation during the week? Does he have elders?

 

[kevin.carroll]

The Session shouldn't have hired him.

 

[OPC'n]

I would find it odd that my pastor would feel the need to dedicate some of his time at my house unless I were sick or in special need of his counsel. He visits homes when the whole church gets together or he will invite new people to his home on Sundays to eat. He probably spends about the same amount of time studying. He obviously doesn't have the bad attitude this other guy has.

 

[Timothy William]

Depends very much on the congregation. A pastor should be the servant of his flock, willing to subordinate his own desires and preferences to the whatever is in their interests. This will vary from place to place, and between members of the congregation.

In over a decade at my current church, I've twice had issues which required serious amounts of time and energy from the pastoral staff. In one instance this meant fortnightly or monthly meetings with one of the pastors over a two year period, in the the other, several irregular meetings and emails over a similar timeframe. In each case these were things that really did have to be dealt with by the pastors, and there wasn't much opportunity to do so any quicker.

 

[bug]

John Newton once said, 'I measure ministers by a square measure. I have no idea of the size of a table , if you only tell me how long it is; but if you also say how wide, I can tell it's dimensions. So when you tell me what a man is in the pulpit, you must also tell me what he is out of it, or I shall not know his size.'

The pastors primary role is being in the word and prayer for the benefit of the flock, however neither of those will be as effective as they could be if he is not intimately aquainted with the needs of those sheep committed to his care. It could be argued from Acts 6 that the caring, visiting aspects of ministry is a role for the deacons of the church, rather then the eldership. However again a think a distant pastor is more likely to be a poor and ineffective pastor.

Visiting though is something that perhaps also needs to be considered, for visitation is not just about going to those in need, but also seeing everyone, so that when/ if there is a need you are in a position to help. It's about picking up the phone just to ask how something went, or if they ill because they weren't at church on sunday. Its about talking to people as you collect them in the minibus. It is about being with the people.

The pastorate is not 9-5 it is all day every day. As has been said proper time needs to be spent on preperation, and proper time needs to be spent with the flock as well, some weeks that will be an intensively difficult balancing act, and the pastor will feel like he needs to be cloned to get it all done, other weeks it will be somewhat easier.

 

[reformedminister]

The pastor's priority is prayer and the ministry of the word. Although I believe preaching should be his priority, and the the spiritual preparation of it, he should not neglect the visitation of members. In smaller churches, this is easier. In larger churches, he will have to utilize members of the session, to assist him in visitation. How much time cannot be made specific. It is different in each church. In this case, it seems that the man is a bit unbalanced and lacks compassion and love of the saints.

 

[Pergamum]

Is this a problem among sermon-centered calvinist preachers. In an effort to make preaching central are many men neglecting visitation and one-on-one care of the flock?

Among calvinisits I hear about pastors being great preachers, and their worth almost hinges on their oratory skills; but I rarely hear a pastor's worth assessed by how often he is at the bedsides of his people.

-----Added 5/20/2009 at 08:22:19 EST-----

The pastor's priority is prayer and the ministry of the word. Although I believe preaching should be his priority, and the the spiritual preparation of it, he should not neglect the visitation of members. In smaller churches, this is easier. In larger churches, he will have to utilize members of the session, to assist him in visitation. How much time cannot be made specific. It is different in each church. In this case, it seems that the man is a bit unbalanced and lacks compassion and love of the saints.

Yes, I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that perhaps he was merely trying to enforce sane boundaries (perhaps he had been tasked to death before).

 

[reformedminister]

Is this a problem among sermon-centered calvinist preachers. In an effort to make preaching central are many men neglecting visitation and one-on-one care of the flock?

Among calvinisits I hear about pastors being great preachers, and their worth almost hinges on their oratory skills; but I rarely hear a pastor's worth assessed by how often he is at the bedsides of his people.

-----Added 5/20/2009 at 08:22:19 EST-----

The pastor's priority is prayer and the ministry of the word. Although I believe preaching should be his priority, and the the spiritual preparation of it, he should not neglect the visitation of members. In smaller churches, this is easier. In larger churches, he will have to utilize members of the session, to assist him in visitation. How much time cannot be made specific. It is different in each church. In this case, it seems that the man is a bit unbalanced and lacks compassion and love of the saints.

Yes, I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that perhaps he was merely trying to enforce sane boundaries (perhaps he had been tasked to death before).

I didn't say that he should neglect his congregation, visitation is a part of pastoral ministry. I think the attitude of this pastor is wrong. I think he should not only visit the sick and dying, but also those who are not when he can. How large the congregation determines the frequency of this, as well as help from members of the session. However, preaching should be his priority. Many pastors should not be in pastoral ministry because they don't like preaching nor study. It is not in them because they are probably not called. There must be a balance. The Scriptural warrant for prayer and ministry of the Word being the pastor's priority is Acts 6:4. Although this is in reference to the Apostles, it commonly agreed that the Apostles were the main teachers of the early Church in Jerusalem. There are no more apostles today, and the Pastor now fulfills the role of the main teaching ministry of the Church. Most scholars would agree with me here. A good book that supports my position is Preaching and Preachers by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

 

[jwithnell]

Each church is different. Each pastor is different. I find it significant that Jonathan Edwards made a similar observation and request -- he said he didn't have the social skills for visitation. But if members of his congregation requested counsel, he was quite generous with his time and assistance.

I think it is important that we don't place on our pastors expectations that have no clear scriptural basis and in doing so, perhaps shackle an otherwise gifted man. Deacons were created to pursue works of mercy to free the elders up for preaching and for prayer. Once you get outside what the scriptures give us, I think we should be careful about what we expect.

 

[Reepicheep]

On average I have found 15 hours to be plenty of time to prepare a biblically sound, practically applicable, engaging sermon, especially if you are preaching expositionally which doesn't require weekly extensive context explanation.

A pastor needs to be "out" with his people many hours each week. Sermon prep and "visitation" (meaning regular fellowship and interaction with the flock) are two sides of the same ministry coin.

 

[Wannabee]

A pastor should make himself available for counsel, but that doesn't mean he needs to visit. There are too many demands on his time to go house to house, unless his congregation is small (like ours). But it is of infinite value to him as a man of God and as a preacher to spend time with his people. He'll think better, know God better, love better and preach better as a result.

 

[greenbaggins]

This is probably THE biggest problem issue in my ministry. The people are used to pastors who spend at most 5 hours all week in the study, and spend five days a week visiting the people, sitting in tractors and combines with people, etc. I simply cannot do that. On the one hand, it is very important to love the people by getting to know them and their needs, and seeking to fulfill those needs. On the other hand, preaching is what feeds the congregation. For instance, in my case, I have a young family at home with three young children. This is also my first pastorate, so I have to prepare new sermons every week. Further, I have two churches, not one, with a total of about 160 members. This makes it literally impossible to visit people as often as they want me to visit. Visiting is still vitally important. 30 hours per week in the study is not unreasonable at all. However, that leaves at least 10 hours in the week for visiting. You can visit a lot of people in 10 hours a week, especially if you use the phone to augment.

One of the difficulties also is that people need to be taught that sermon preparation is not unloving any more than the mother preparing a meal is unloving. The sermon should be a major way in which the pastor loves his congregation. The problem, of course, is that people do not see the pastor slaving away in his study at Hebrew and Greek. Of course, specific application becomes almost impossible if the pastor does not know his sheep well. So, in a way, visiting is also part of sermon prep.

 

[jwithnell]

If a church is functioning well, it seems like everyone in the congregation will be getting to know everyone else -- pastor included -- in an organic way. When everyone is pitching in and helping each other, showing hospitality, helping around the church building, engaging in various ministries and so forth, then really getting to know each other just comes naturally.

 

[Houston E.]

It is vital to pastoral ministry to visit your flock. Otherwise, how can one know what their flock is learning? Granted, visiting with them just to discuss politics, or sports can be wasteful. That's not sheperding the flock. But in order to know if he is equipping the saints, one needs to examine the flock.
Richard Baxter speaks of this in "The Reformed Pastor".

 

[reformedminister]

It is vital to pastoral ministry to visit your flock. Otherwise, how can one know what their flock is learning? Granted, visiting with them just to discuss politics, or sports can be wasteful. That's not sheperding the flock. But in order to know if he is equipping the saints, one needs to examine the flock.
Richard Baxter speaks of this in "The Reformed Pastor".

I Great book. Every Reformed pastor should have one on His shelf. Baxter also believed in personally catechising each family. This may be hard to do with some churches, especially large ones. I'll leave catechism alone for now. It is a whole other interesting topic.

 

[raekwon]

What about this gem of a "pastor"?

That clip makes me want to fly into a rage.

 

[Knoxienne]

What about this gem of a "pastor"?

That clip makes me want to fly into a rage.

Me too - what a jerk!

 

[Marrow Man]

As has already been alluded to, the kind of congregation makes a difference with regard to demands. I pastored a rural congregation of older folks, and it was the expectation that a great deal of time would be spent in visitation. I would pretty much just set aside Tuesdays for that task and that would be that (unless a crisis situation developed, of course). The problem is that the time was almost never as profitable as I would have liked it to have been. For instance, it was a chore to steer the conversation to spiritual matters, and often the people I visited would not even bother to turn off the TV. The view of the pastor was simply someone to visit and engage in small talk. While the visitation was not a complete waste of time (one does get to know the flock that way, and the opportunity to comfort the lonely is there), it still encroaches a lot on the minister's time.

With younger (working) families it is different, especially if both work and the kids are in school all day. Unless it is a weekend visitation, that is difficult (I would not want a pastor to just drop in on an evening). Also, it has been my experience that urban congregations (which I am now pastoring) do not wish to be visited to the same degree as rural congregations. That varies, of course, and the older members still want visitation regardless (perfectly understandable).

As stated above, it is hard to quantify the number of hours. And in a perfect world, the elders of the church could help with the visitation. However, as I was told in Mississippi, the congregation doesn't view that the same way (i.e., it's not the pastor visiting).

 

[Houston E.]

The problem is that the time was almost never as profitable as I would have liked it to have been. For instance, it was a chore to steer the conversation to spiritual matters, and often the people I visited would not even bother to turn off the TV. The view of the pastor was simply someone to visit and engage in small talk. While the visitation was not a complete waste of time (one does get to know the flock that way, and the opportunity to comfort the lonely is there), it still encroaches a lot on the minister's time.

Maybe you could announce on Sunday your purpose in coming - to engage in spiritual matters. If they're not used to that type of visitation from a pastor, they won't expect it.

 

[LawrenceU]

Perry Noble is expressing his rage against his sheep. If this clip is representative of his heart then, no, he is not a pastor. But, there are an awful lot of people that are taught these same principles in their pastoral education. The shift that began in the sixties and seventies to the Pastor/CEO model has severely damaged the ability of many pastors, who genuinely are pastors, to see the reality and necessity of personal interaction with the congregation. When a church grows so large that it must be run like and organisation rather than be led like a flock then it is too large.

I have served in congregations where the visitation expectations were so out of line that I could have spent 12 hours a day six days a week with a good four to six on the Lord's Day doing nothing but that. Balance is the key and every congregation is different. There are no hard and fast rules.

I could go on for hours about this topic. But, I won't. I do believe that the fruits of the business organisation model of church structure has encroached in more areas than we would like. That is one extreme. The other is a congregation that does not value the preached Word. Frankly, many don't. They don't see any need for preaching other than salvation messages or some similar bent according to the congregations wishes. What they desire from the 'man up front' is a hospital chaplain, camp counselor, civic leader.

 

[Classical Presbyterian]

What about this gem of a "pastor"?

YouTube - A Purpose-Driven Scolding

This guy stinks! People actually attend his church??

On the upside, he makes me feel better about my sermons and pastoral care!

 

[Knoxienne]

What about this gem of a "pastor"?

YouTube - A Purpose-Driven Scolding

This guy stinks! People actually attend his church??

On the upside, he makes me feel better about my sermons and pastoral care!

I like to refer to guys like this as "impastors".

 

[Marrow Man]

The other is a congregation that does not value the preached Word. Frankly, many don't. They don't see any need for preaching other than salvation messages or some similar bent according to the congregations wishes. What they desire from the 'man up front' is a hospital chaplain, camp counselor, civic leader.

Yes, this is an accurate summary, In my humble opinion, of some dead/dying congregations. I have heard it referred to in a couple of ways -- one, as a chaplaincy model, where that what the congregation primarily expects from the pastor; or two, negatively as a euthanasia model, where the congregation expects the pastor to gently lead them into a blissful death.

Thankfully, most congregations are not like this.

 

[Pergamum]

What about this gem of a "pastor"?

YouTube - A Purpose-Driven Scolding

WOW!

There is so much about that clip that disturbs me.

Not in the least that he needs to comb the hair on his ugly looking head.

Like a smart-aleck teenager, I'd like to slap that sarcastic smirk off his face.

Got any more info on this joker?

-----Added 5/20/2009 at 03:38:25 EST-----

Anyone have any tips for sermon preparation AND adequate visitation of one's flock; without neglecting my family duties as well?

Praying for God to raise up more elders to help you handle the load?

 

[Idelette]

This really is a difficult topic....there are so many more responsibilites today than ever before! Most Pastors have their own families that take precedence, and some even have secular jobs to make ends meet. I'm not sure how much time a Pastor should spend in preparation and study. I'm sure that depends largely on the individual and his other responsibilities. I just wonder how one can shepherd a flock if he doesn't even know them? I think it is so vital to know your flock and to know the struggles that they are going through. And honestly, I think so many problems and divisions that eventually destroy churches could be avoided if leadership didn't wait till there was a "need" to visit with people! As someone who is largely on my own....I wish that leadership would meet with me more. I realize that Pastors are busy and have many responsibilites....but the Church really is a Body that needs one another. I believe this also involves the elders and not just the Pastor. So I think it should be a matter of delegating responsibilities more than anything. I don't think that preparing to lead in worship should be sacrificed to visiting with members.....but, I also don't think that it is appropriate to neglect the flock. True shepherding takes getting involved in people's lives and counseling them proactively before a crisis even occurs! Just my

 

[Edward]

I talked to a pastor tonight that prided himself in spending close to 30 hours studying for his sermons every week.

My first thought was 'what does he do with his other 30 hours of working a week?'

If it's a large church with a minister for pastoral care, and a minister for adminstration, etc., he probably can afford a 40 hour week with 30 of it devoted to sermon prep. If he's the only guy there, however, he either needs to lengthen his workweek or shorten his sermons.

It would be interesting to listen to a sermon to see if the work shows.

 

[Reepicheep]

I talked to a pastor tonight that prided himself in spending close to 30 hours studying for his sermons every week.

My first thought was 'what does he do with his other 30 hours of working a week?'

If it's a large church with a minister for pastoral care, and a minister for adminstration, etc., he probably can afford a 40 hour week with 30 of it devoted to sermon prep. If he's the only guy there, however, he either needs to lengthen his workweek or shorten his sermons.

It would be interesting to listen to a sermon to see if the work shows.

Point well taken, I would only say that even the pastor of a large church with additional ministers serving should be in the lives of people for a good portion of his "work" week. The focus for him will be cultivating the elders and lay leaders as a means of equipping them for the flock visitation they will do.

I just don't see taking reasonable time (10-15 hrs per week avg.) to prepare a sermon and spending time "visiting" members of the flock as competing pastoral duties. Jesus did them both, balance is the key.

 

[bisonrancher]

My pastor puts roughly 15 hours into a sermon and preaches two per week. More if there are weddings, funerals, or things like Ascension Day. That leaves him only a small amount of time for visits with the 400 or so in our congregation.

Clearly it is not possible for the minister to effectively get to know all the members. This becomes a little awkward when he asks someone who has been attending for a year if it their first time in church.

Thankfully we are blessed with elders in the church who do a great deal of visiting themselves. I believe they are called to aid the minister in this aspect.