biblicalthought
Puritan Board Freshman
The question is simple. If we were to survey the condition of the church as it is today, what would you say we should reform first?
What Would You Reform First?
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biblicalthought
Puritan Board Freshman
BTW, my personal answer is Sola Scriptura.
tellville
Puritan Board Junior
Why didn't you put Sola Scriptura as an option?
biblicalthought
Puritan Board Freshman
Gotta leave some room for the "other" option! 
Besides, from my interaction with Christians of the 21st century, many do not believe that they have veered from historic Sola Scriptura. I have pointed out outright abandonment of SS to some, only to get that wierd stare that says, dude, you're a radical fundie!
Besides, from my interaction with Christians of the 21st century, many do not believe that they have veered from historic Sola Scriptura. I have pointed out outright abandonment of SS to some, only to get that wierd stare that says, dude, you're a radical fundie!
Grymir
Puritan Board Graduate
Other:
#1 Throw the libs and barthians out!!
#2 Sola Scripura!!
#3 Bring the KJV back!! (It's an abomination to the LORD doesn't compare the modern watered down versions which say the Lord does not like.
)
#2.5 Demand adherence to the WCF!
#4 Make R.C. Sproul the Protestant Pope!
#5 No more grape juice.
#6 The new #1 show on TBN - Law & Order: Theological Victims Unit
#7 Blow up Christianity Today's headquarters and put up a billboard that reads "Thus saith the LORD!"
#134 Demand Reformed Presidents!!
#1 Throw the libs and barthians out!!
#2 Sola Scripura!!
#3 Bring the KJV back!! (It's an abomination to the LORD doesn't compare the modern watered down versions which say the Lord does not like.
) #2.5 Demand adherence to the WCF!
#4 Make R.C. Sproul the Protestant Pope!
#5 No more grape juice.
#6 The new #1 show on TBN - Law & Order: Theological Victims Unit
#7 Blow up Christianity Today's headquarters and put up a billboard that reads "Thus saith the LORD!"
#134 Demand Reformed Presidents!!
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biblicalthought
Puritan Board Freshman
I would love to see #'s8-133. Barthians for sure gotta go, along with the Libs. Not sure about the KJV, WCF would certainly be a step in reform (best summary of Biblical doctrine bar none), wouldn't vote 4 Sproul, firing the Welch's delivery man is good, love the show idea - wait, isn't it already TVU? Rather than blowing up CT, why not name it as it really is: Christianity Astray? And a Reformed President could change national day of prayer to International life of prayer! Not a bad #134!
ANT
Puritan Board Junior
In order to know salvation ...
You must know Christ.
In order to know Christ ...
You must know the Attributes of God.
Once you know Christ and the attributes of God ...
You can understand Salvation ...
Once you understand Salvation ...
You need to know what role the church plays ...
That's kind of what I'm thinking ...
I hope that clarifies my post above better.
You must know Christ.
In order to know Christ ...
You must know the Attributes of God.
Once you know Christ and the attributes of God ...
You can understand Salvation ...
Once you understand Salvation ...
You need to know what role the church plays ...
That's kind of what I'm thinking ...
I hope that clarifies my post above better.
N. Eshelman
Puritan Board Senior
The great revivals of history begin with men crying out for salvation! The others flow from justification. Only the justified church cares about Christ, God's character, the Bride, etc.
Timothy William
Puritan Board Junior
Christology first. The fastest way to a false Gospel is to believe in a false Christ. Overall, the Christology of modern Protestantism is reasonable, compared to, for example, its soteriology, but any errors in this regard should be remedied first. Soteriology should be next, and by the time it is covered, the attributes of God should also be covered.
Me Died Blue
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Exactly. The Gospel true and the Church healthy that we know will be forever maintained and furthered will never be kept and made so by means of picking one horse to temporarily focus on somewhat more than the rest, ever how important and even misunderstood and neglected it might be in one's day. The Church and her ministers need to simply focus on preaching, administering, worshipping and counseling from the Word as the whole counsel of God, and her members living the same.
Look at Calvin as an example - he is most well-known today for predestination, yet one of his life's chief focuses was the glory of God in all things, and he called the proper worship of God at least as foundational to the whole Christian system as the source of salvation, and he was often nicknamed "the theologian of the Holy Spirit." As can similarly be seen from the balanced nature and content of his Institutes, commentaries and other works, even while leading a large part of the Protestant Reformation in its earliest times, amidst the very specific errors and extremes of the Romanists, the Anabaptists and others, he did not do so by putting emphasis on reforming one doctrine more intently than another, either in his preaching or his writing. And look at what that helped to produce, for centuries afterward.
Dr Mike Kear
Puritan Board Freshman
We need another Great Awakening ala Edwards and Whitefield. This would include all of the above and turn our hearts back to our first love. God help us. I fear that in this country our only two options are true revival or the judgment of God. (Let's pray that He gives us option #1).
jawyman
Puritan Board Junior
Other:
#1 Throw the libs and barthians out!!
#2 Sola Scripura!!
#3 Bring the KJV back!! (It's an abomination to the LORD doesn't compare the modern watered down versions which say the Lord does not like.
#2.5 Demand adherence to the WCF!
#4 Make R.C. Sproul the Protestant Pope!
#5 No more grape juice.
#6 The new #1 show on TBN - Law & Order: Theological Victims Unit
#7 Blow up Christianity Today's headquarters and put up a billboard that reads "Thus saith the LORD!"
#134 Demand Reformed Presidents!!
I agree with most of the above, but I have to say I am an ESV man. I speaketh not the english of the King.
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
Yes, I think this is the place to start. Cultures are a reflection of the god they serve.
Sonoftheday
Puritan Board Sophomore
With all of theology tied so closely together as it is it is hard to pick just one. I chose the attributes of God because the reformation in my own life followed from this. Once I began to understand that God was more than a lovey-dovey teddy bear I grew greatly. An understanding of God's Holliness, Justice, Righteousness, Wrath, and Mercy let us to the understand the true Love of God in that he does simply look at us and forget our sins, but an atonement was made for them.
In my own personal journey once I began to better understand who God is, it made me understand who I am in comparison. This led to a reformed Sotieriology, and from there led to reforming all the -ology's that make up my theology.
Josh pointed out the Holliness of God, I believe this was actually the attribute of God that began the process in my life.
In my own personal journey once I began to better understand who God is, it made me understand who I am in comparison. This led to a reformed Sotieriology, and from there led to reforming all the -ology's that make up my theology.
Josh pointed out the Holliness of God, I believe this was actually the attribute of God that began the process in my life.
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I would agree with you, but for me it's a toss up between knowing God or knowing Christ first. Jesus said that if you know the Father, you know Him. So in my mind, an understanding of who God is comes first. But then Jesus said I and the Father are one. So does that mean you must know them at the same time?
I realize I am hair splitting here, but so often I run across people who say they know Christ, and when I find out what they believe about God the Father, it's total confusion. Also, after the fall, it seems that we see Christ being revealed as God was revealing Himself, so perhaps it is two things going on at the same time?
Going with Christology, knowing and focusing on the Christ of Scripture is paramount but it also would bring the other vital issues into play with a vengance! Sola-Scriptura (Christ said Scripture CANNOT be broken) to me it would "line up" all the essentials. Just my
Thomas2007
Puritan Board Sophomore
Other:
#1 Throw the libs and barthians out!!
#2 Sola Scripura!!
#3 Bring the KJV back!! (It's an abomination to the LORD doesn't compare the modern watered down versions which say the Lord does not like.
#2.5 Demand adherence to the WCF!
#4 Make R.C. Sproul the Protestant Pope!
#5 No more grape juice.
#6 The new #1 show on TBN - Law & Order: Theological Victims Unit
#7 Blow up Christianity Today's headquarters and put up a billboard that reads "Thus saith the LORD!"
#134 Demand Reformed Presidents!!
I agree with most of the above, but I have to say I am an ESV man. I speaketh not the english of the King.
I think the gentlemen would rightly hold 2 and 3 as a unity. Simply, one cannot hold to the principles of Trent on one hand and then consistently claim Sola Scriptura on the other hand, it requires more than nominal affirmation.
If the true text of Scripture was properly represented by the Latin Vulgate and it's English counterparts like the ESV, then the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura cannot stand.
biblicalthought
Puritan Board Freshman
Thomas, I have read your reply several times over, and I am not following you. Would you please explain what you mean?
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
I voted for the Attributes of God, as I believe that so much of what is wrong, or lacking in many circles is the sure and certain knowledge of the God of Scripture. People look for a god who is their buddy, a church that is "seeker sensitive, and "user-friendly" (whatever that means). In much of modern "churchianity" there is no fear of God. The reverence and piety of our our puritan fathers is sorely lacking.
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**Moderator.** Let's cool it on the blowing up buildings stuff. Some get the hyperbole, some don't.
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
markkoller
Puritan Board Freshman
Agree that Scripture is first....we know nothing of Christ, justification or the holiness of God without it. Sure, most Christians have a form of reverence for Scripture but this is usually confined to superstition. If Christians don't know they have abandoned it, this is our first priority of Reformation. Most people I know (outside of the Reformed faith) who love Scripture are horrified to hear about the sovereignty of God and the inability of man. We can't return these principles to the proper place in the church unless Scripture comes first.
mshingler
Puritan Board Freshman
I voted soteriology. After reading through some of the other posts, I would agree that most of the options are so inter-related that it's hard to single one out. Also, perhaps starting with the attributes of God would lead to right soteriology. As I recall, it was reading Pink's "Attributes of God" in my early Christian life that helped set me on the path to understanding and embracing Calvinism as the clearly biblical soteriology. (Of course, reading the Bible kind of helped too.)
I think ecclesiology is an immensely important topic for the 21st century church, but I don't think ecclesiology will be helped much without a corresponding return to reformed soteriology and a high view of the holiness and majesty of God.
I think ecclesiology is an immensely important topic for the 21st century church, but I don't think ecclesiology will be helped much without a corresponding return to reformed soteriology and a high view of the holiness and majesty of God.
Thomas2007
Puritan Board Sophomore
The gentlemen said he affirmed the statements in reference excepting the Authorized Version revealing instead that he stood upon the updated Revised Standard Version (e.g., ESV). Hence, I was pointing out that one cannot affirm the historical Reformed doctrine of Sola Scriptura while holding to a dialetical presupposition inherit in Biblical criticism and it's textual redactions. Which gets to the bottom of the issue that you pointed out in the very first thread, that Sola Scriptura is the most important doctrine that needs to be defended and reformed.
One can, following Warfield, redefine the meaning of Sola Scriptura into "Solo" Scriptura, if you will, holding autographs and apographs in a form/matter dialetic, but then the issue of Authority which is the entire foundation of the doctrine is undermined. Once a dialetical philosophy is set up to filter Scripture through then the concept of Sola Scriptura is only, and can only, be nominally affirmed. One can't receive it, rest in it and stand on it with both feet, it's much like a pogo stick, as long as one can continue bouncing up and down then some type of balance can be maintained, but one simply can't keep that up forever. All dialetical philosophies wane back and forth between their opposing concepts.
This is discussed at length in the translations & manuscripts forum in several threads, you may want to start here to dig deeper into it.
Gesetveemet
Puritan Board Sophomore
Other:
#1 Throw the libs and barthians out!!
#2 Sola Scripura!!
#3 Bring the KJV back!! (It's an abomination to the LORD doesn't compare the modern watered down versions which say the Lord does not like.
#2.5 Demand adherence to the WCF!
#4 Make R.C. Sproul the Protestant Pope!
#5 No more grape juice.
#6 The new #1 show on TBN - Law & Order: Theological Victims Unit
#7 Blow up Christianity Today's headquarters and put up a billboard that reads "Thus saith the LORD!"
#134 Demand Reformed Presidents!!
I agree with most of the above, but I have to say I am an ESV man. I speaketh not the english of the King.
I think the gentlemen would rightly hold 2 and 3 as a unity. Simply, one cannot hold to the principles of Trent on one hand and then consistently claim Sola Scriptura on the other hand, it requires more than nominal affirmation.
If the true text of Scripture was properly represented by the Latin Vulgate and it's English counterparts like the ESV, then the Protestant doctrine of Sola Scriptura cannot stand.
The doctrine of Sola Scriptura does not stand or fall based on a translation of Scripture. As Protestants we believe that the original autographs are preserved free of error and that God in His providence has preserved His word.
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