luvroftheWord
Puritan Board Sophomore
Jeremiah also tells us that the covenant is still to us and our children, just like in the OT.
The New Covenant is already and not yet.
The New Covenant is already and not yet.
Who is in the covenant, the whole family or only the elected
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Rich Barcellos
Puritan Board Freshman
Curt said:
[quote:fa59dcd8a9]
Aren't believers only in the New Covenant? Jeremiah 31:31-34 says that the people in the New Covenant will know the Lord and will have their sins forgiven.
[/quote:fa59dcd8a9]
How about Ezekiel 36:26-27?
1. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will get a new heart from God: v. 26.
2. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit: v. 27a.
3. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will receive the gift of sanctification: v. 27b.
and Jer. 32:40?
"And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me." The blood of the NC is the blood of the everlasting covenant (Heb. 13:20) and thus secures these promises for all in the covenant. None in the covenant will depart from God and God will not depart from them.
[quote:fa59dcd8a9]
Aren't believers only in the New Covenant? Jeremiah 31:31-34 says that the people in the New Covenant will know the Lord and will have their sins forgiven.
[/quote:fa59dcd8a9]
How about Ezekiel 36:26-27?
1. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will get a new heart from God: v. 26.
2. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit: v. 27a.
3. The NC promises that all of the participants in the it will receive the gift of sanctification: v. 27b.
and Jer. 32:40?
"And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me." The blood of the NC is the blood of the everlasting covenant (Heb. 13:20) and thus secures these promises for all in the covenant. None in the covenant will depart from God and God will not depart from them.
luvroftheWord
Puritan Board Sophomore
Wayne and Patrick,
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo.
:duel:
[wanted to add a new smiley
]
[Edited on 4-1-2004 by luvroftheWord]
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo.
:duel:
[wanted to add a new smiley
][Edited on 4-1-2004 by luvroftheWord]
Puritan Sailor
Puritan Board Doctor
[quote:48e6328a80][i:48e6328a80]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:48e6328a80]
Wayne and Patrick,
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo. [/quote:48e6328a80]
I agree. Have you got your copy of the Knox Colloquium yet? if not maybe we should wait until you can read it first. I'm only about half way through it myself.
Wayne and Patrick,
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo. [/quote:48e6328a80]
I agree. Have you got your copy of the Knox Colloquium yet? if not maybe we should wait until you can read it first. I'm only about half way through it myself.
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
[quote:a3b6a6054d][i:a3b6a6054d]Originally posted by puritansailor[/i:a3b6a6054d]
[quote:a3b6a6054d][i:a3b6a6054d]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:a3b6a6054d]
Wayne and Patrick,
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo. [/quote:a3b6a6054d]
I agree. Have you got your copy of the Knox Colloquium yet? if not maybe we should wait until you can read it first. I'm only about half way through it myself. [/quote:a3b6a6054d]
I have finished it and would agree that a new thread should be started with one stipulation: it doesn't turn into a credo-peado debate!!!!
But one thing, I am interested in how Craig is going to make the various distinctions concerning corporate election and individual election, especially when it comes to corporate Justification. That could be a thread all to itself
[quote:a3b6a6054d][i:a3b6a6054d]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:a3b6a6054d]
Wayne and Patrick,
If you guys want to continue to discussing the FV, we should probably do so in another thread, since it's obvious that this thread is going to turn into another credo-paedo hullabaloo. [/quote:a3b6a6054d]
I agree. Have you got your copy of the Knox Colloquium yet? if not maybe we should wait until you can read it first. I'm only about half way through it myself. [/quote:a3b6a6054d]
I have finished it and would agree that a new thread should be started with one stipulation: it doesn't turn into a credo-peado debate!!!!
But one thing, I am interested in how Craig is going to make the various distinctions concerning corporate election and individual election, especially when it comes to corporate Justification. That could be a thread all to itself
luvroftheWord
Puritan Board Sophomore
Okay, sounds good guys. Unfortunately, I only ordered my Knox Colloquy a few days ago, so it will probably be a while before I get it because it said 4-6 weeks. Add the time it takes me to read it on top of that.
But yeah, I think the discussion will be valuable. And yes, NO BAPTISM DEBATES ALLOWED!!!
Add the time it takes me to read it on top of that.But yeah, I think the discussion will be valuable. And yes, NO BAPTISM DEBATES ALLOWED!!!
luvroftheWord
Puritan Board Sophomore
I second what Paul says.
Also, the New Covenant prophecies of the OT are only one thread of God's plan to restore his people Israel. Christ inaugurated the New Covenant at his first coming. We continue to live in the already/not yet between the first and second advents of Christ while the restoration is still incomplete. During this continuation, the covenant will still contain a mixture of elect and non-elect. At Christ's second coming, the covenant will consummated, the restoration will be complete, and all Israel will be saved. We learn this in Romans 11.
Also, the New Covenant prophecies of the OT are only one thread of God's plan to restore his people Israel. Christ inaugurated the New Covenant at his first coming. We continue to live in the already/not yet between the first and second advents of Christ while the restoration is still incomplete. During this continuation, the covenant will still contain a mixture of elect and non-elect. At Christ's second coming, the covenant will consummated, the restoration will be complete, and all Israel will be saved. We learn this in Romans 11.
Paul said:
[quote:3bd73f0a57]
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. 28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
This pasage plainly says that there are going to be some who ARE judged. It tells of of ACTUAL people who have done something and therefore, they will be judged for waht they have done. The judgment is a firery judgment, thus it speaks of hell!
(P1) If God calls a group His People then He views that group as covenant members. This can be shown by the fact that God NEVER ONCE refers to an undisputed non-covenant member as "His People." Can the baptist show that the Philistines, or the Cananites, for example are EVER called "His People?" Since EVERY OTHER TIME God calls a group "His People" he is speaking of covenant members the baptist, therefore, has a HUGE burden to show that Heb. 10:30 is the ONLY time this does not apply. Thus the objection seems ad hoc.
(P2) God refers to the Heb 10:30 group as "His People." This premise is unquestionable.
(P3) Therefore, God views this group as being in coveannt with Him. Follows necessarily.
-Paul
[/quote:3bd73f0a57]
Just a reminder to all, we've discussed Hebrews 10:30 before, in the following thread:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2827&page=10
It begins near the end of page 9 and continues through page 10 until it apparently degenerated into mud slinging.
TheonomyNZ did an excellent job answering Paul's view of Hebrews 10:30 in that thread.
[quote:3bd73f0a57]
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries. 28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses:
29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?30 For we know him that said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
This pasage plainly says that there are going to be some who ARE judged. It tells of of ACTUAL people who have done something and therefore, they will be judged for waht they have done. The judgment is a firery judgment, thus it speaks of hell!
(P1) If God calls a group His People then He views that group as covenant members. This can be shown by the fact that God NEVER ONCE refers to an undisputed non-covenant member as "His People." Can the baptist show that the Philistines, or the Cananites, for example are EVER called "His People?" Since EVERY OTHER TIME God calls a group "His People" he is speaking of covenant members the baptist, therefore, has a HUGE burden to show that Heb. 10:30 is the ONLY time this does not apply. Thus the objection seems ad hoc.
(P2) God refers to the Heb 10:30 group as "His People." This premise is unquestionable.
(P3) Therefore, God views this group as being in coveannt with Him. Follows necessarily.
-Paul
[/quote:3bd73f0a57]
Just a reminder to all, we've discussed Hebrews 10:30 before, in the following thread:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2827&page=10
It begins near the end of page 9 and continues through page 10 until it apparently degenerated into mud slinging.
TheonomyNZ did an excellent job answering Paul's view of Hebrews 10:30 in that thread.
wsw201
Puritan Board Senior
[quote:b4fafd1480][i:b4fafd1480]Originally posted by luvroftheWord[/i:b4fafd1480]
Okay, sounds good guys. Unfortunately, I only ordered my Knox Colloquy a few days ago, so it will probably be a while before I get it because it said 4-6 weeks. Add the time it takes me to read it on top of that.
But yeah, I think the discussion will be valuable. And yes, NO BAPTISM DEBATES ALLOWED!!! [/quote:b4fafd1480]
In the mean time maybe you can start putting together your ideas on corporate election.
Okay, sounds good guys. Unfortunately, I only ordered my Knox Colloquy a few days ago, so it will probably be a while before I get it because it said 4-6 weeks.
Add the time it takes me to read it on top of that.But yeah, I think the discussion will be valuable. And yes, NO BAPTISM DEBATES ALLOWED!!!
[/quote:b4fafd1480]In the mean time maybe you can start putting together your ideas on corporate election.
luvroftheWord
Puritan Board Sophomore
[quote:22fa300cf6][i:22fa300cf6]Originally posted by wsw201[/i:22fa300cf6]
In the mean time maybe you can start putting together your ideas on corporate election. [/quote:22fa300cf6]
I am certainly trying to do that!
Perhaps it will be easier once I receive the book. I'm sure the pros and cons of such a view are laid out quite nicely.
In the mean time maybe you can start putting together your ideas on corporate election.
[/quote:22fa300cf6]I am certainly trying to do that!
Perhaps it will be easier once I receive the book. I'm sure the pros and cons of such a view are laid out quite nicely.- Status
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