Why do christians today reject the sabbath?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zenas

Snow Miser
One shouldn't fortune-tell, because I'm going to do none of those things. I'd just like to know how is the Sabbath kept Holy, i.e. set apart, if you do what you do every other day on that day?
 

py3ak

They're stalling and plotting against me
Staff member
Why does this only seem to come up in regard to employment and sports? If not for those two things I don't think anyone would wonder why some people "reject" the Sabbath.
Because it is those things from which we are to withdraw our feet upon the day in which God challenges a special interest (for our benefit).
 

OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor
John, John!!! I hate dispensationalism (sorry to those who love it), but dispensationalism has nothing to do with this.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
One word: Dispensationalism
Actually, that's not true. I attended a hyper-dispensational bible college that had strict rules on the Lord's Day. No sports. No raucous activity of any type. The day was supposed to be given over to worship, study of the word of God and fellowship with other students (our school was in middle of the Adirondack Mountains. No one lived off campus). And lest you think that was specific to the school I attended, many of the churches we partnered with practiced the same thing.
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
One shouldn't fortune-tell, because I'm going to do none of those things. I'd just like to know how is the Sabbath kept Holy, i.e. set apart, if you do what you do every other day on that day?
I don't go to Church every other day of the week.

Because it is those things from which we are to withdraw our feet upon the day in which God challenges a special interest (for our benefit).
There are MANY unholy things Christians do, all the time. It seems to me that sports and working annoy/bother us more than any other. We also never seem to get upset at those who are overly strict or demanding in regard to Sabbath keeping.

-----Added 1/31/2009 at 12:38:17 EST-----

One word: Dispensationalism
Actually, that's not true. I attended a hyper-dispensational bible college that had strict rules on the Lord's Day. No sports. No raucous activity of any type. The day was supposed to be given over to worship, study of the word of God and fellowship with other students (our school was in middle of the Adirondack Mountains. No one lived off campus). And lest you think that was specific to the school I attended, many of the churches we partnered with practiced the same thing.
Absolutely!

I know dispensational pastors that we're fired for cutting their lawns on Sunday.
 

Zenas

Snow Miser
So the day is set apart by going to public worship and that's all? God rested the whole day from His work, you rest for an hour? I don't really follow.

Yes, but we're talking about the Sabbath here. Don't confuse the issues.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
No one here argues we need to or can "ignore" the Sabbath. It's just some here feel that watching a football game isn't ignoring it. Some even feel working isn't ignoring it. Now I know some of you are going to post 500 refrences from past puritans or part of the confessions stating that working on the Sabbath or watching sports is a sin.

FINE

We all know that is the view taken with many and that this being a confessional board that we are to not argue against it. So my question has always been, what's the point of these discussions then? They either have to be full of like minded Sabbatarians talking about all the members here who are sinning this Sunday, or debate about a subject that technically isn't debatable here.

So in the end, what's the use?
Adam, there are many who struggle with the topic. Discussion helps them see both sides. For those who are settled in their sabbath position these threads may not be as necessary as for those who are still seeking to determine their position.
 

OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor
No one here argues we need to or can "ignore" the Sabbath. It's just some here feel that watching a football game isn't ignoring it. Some even feel working isn't ignoring it. Now I know some of you are going to post 500 refrences from past puritans or part of the confessions stating that working on the Sabbath or watching sports is a sin.

FINE

We all know that is the view taken with many and that this being a confessional board that we are to not argue against it. So my question has always been, what's the point of these discussions then? They either have to be full of like minded Sabbatarians talking about all the members here who are sinning this Sunday, or debate about a subject that technically isn't debatable here.


So in the end, what's the use?
Adam, there are many who struggle with the topic. Discussion helps them see both sides. For those who are settled in their sabbath position these threads may not be as necessary as for those who are still seeking to determine their position.
Am I allowed to ask questions that have not been answered in the past by other people (not here) then?
 

JohnGill

Puritan Board Senior
One word: Dispensationalism
Actually, that's not true. I attended a hyper-dispensational bible college that had strict rules on the Lord's Day. No sports. No raucous activity of any type. The day was supposed to be given over to worship, study of the word of God and fellowship with other students (our school was in middle of the Adirondack Mountains. No one lived off campus). And lest you think that was specific to the school I attended, many of the churches we partnered with practiced the same thing.
In classic dispensationalism one does not have to keep the sabbath because it has not been repeated in the New Testament.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
No one here argues we need to or can "ignore" the Sabbath. It's just some here feel that watching a football game isn't ignoring it. Some even feel working isn't ignoring it. Now I know some of you are going to post 500 refrences from past puritans or part of the confessions stating that working on the Sabbath or watching sports is a sin.

FINE

We all know that is the view taken with many and that this being a confessional board that we are to not argue against it. So my question has always been, what's the point of these discussions then? They either have to be full of like minded Sabbatarians talking about all the members here who are sinning this Sunday, or debate about a subject that technically isn't debatable here.


So in the end, what's the use?
Adam, there are many who struggle with the topic. Discussion helps them see both sides. For those who are settled in their sabbath position these threads may not be as necessary as for those who are still seeking to determine their position.
Am I allowed to ask questions that have not been answered in the past by other people (not here) then?
Sarah, ask away! :) All honest questions are welcome, dear sister.
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
I believe Church should last much longer than it does. I think Church is far too often seen as a sermon and little else. I would absolutely love to find a Church that opens at 9 a.m. and closes at 9 p.m. but try finding me one of those.

As for work, Ive seen so many (including many here in the past) give up job, after job, after job because they we're asked to work on a Sunday. I've seen and heard from these same people pleading for prayer because they couldn't pay their bills, feed their families, or put gas in their cars. I know I am going to be called pragmatic for this but I think demanding every Sunday off for unskilled laborers is a bit much. If you must have this you had better get some training, skill, etc. so you can be so demanding in today's society. If you go to work when asked, do a good job, be respectable, etc. eventually you can start getting your schedule requests fulfilled. That also a good Christian witness. Also, if a Church was open all day/night then you could go for as long as you could at the time that you could.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
One word: Dispensationalism
Actually, that's not true. I attended a hyper-dispensational bible college that had strict rules on the Lord's Day. No sports. No raucous activity of any type. The day was supposed to be given over to worship, study of the word of God and fellowship with other students (our school was in middle of the Adirondack Mountains. No one lived off campus). And lest you think that was specific to the school I attended, many of the churches we partnered with practiced the same thing.
In classic dispensationalism one does not have to keep the sabbath because it has not been repeated in the New Testament.
But that's not you wrote. You wrote, "One word: dispensationalism." And dispensationalism is a bit like jello; it's wobbly and tends to slide. Dispensational theology has been in a constant state of flux since Darby. But...now we're :offtopic:
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
No one here argues we need to or can "ignore" the Sabbath. It's just some here feel that watching a football game isn't ignoring it. Some even feel working isn't ignoring it. Now I know some of you are going to post 500 refrences from past puritans or part of the confessions stating that working on the Sabbath or watching sports is a sin.

FINE

We all know that is the view taken with many and that this being a confessional board that we are to not argue against it. So my question has always been, what's the point of these discussions then? They either have to be full of like minded Sabbatarians talking about all the members here who are sinning this Sunday, or debate about a subject that technically isn't debatable here.

So in the end, what's the use?
Adam, there are many who struggle with the topic. Discussion helps them see both sides. For those who are settled in their sabbath position these threads may not be as necessary as for those who are still seeking to determine their position.
So members can question the confession if they are trying to figure it out? That makes sense, but what of those who's solid position is that we don't have to "keep" the Sabbath? Then again as you said earlier I don't think we have one member here who doesn't think they keep it. Even those watching the game tomorrow.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
So members can question the confession if they are trying to figure it out?
I don't think honest inquiry necessarily questions the confessions. Even though the confessions are pretty clear on the sabbath, Christian practice in that are is all over the map -- even in Reformed (confessional!) churches. As long as it's done with civility, I think the discussions are worthwhile. What is NOT worthwhile is casting aspersions on brothers or sisters because they don't hold to the same sabbath position that you do. That smacks of pride and self-righteousness.
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
I agree, but because the confessions are so clear I don't see how one could come in to one of these discussions and claim any of the strict sabbatarians in them are wrong. As such I don't see the point of them.

Maybe I just need stay away from them....
 

Zenas

Snow Miser
So Scriptural mandates are only as good as the convenience with which they can be obeyed? I'm quite happy there are brothers out there who will forgo jobs based on whether they are required to explicitly break the Sabbath. I am one of them. While your activities may be arguable, working on the Sabbath is explicitly forbidden.
 

ReformedWretch

Puritan Board Doctor
huh?

-----Added 1/31/2009 at 01:20:55 EST-----

Matt 22: 35(A) And one of them,(B) a lawyer, asked him a question(C) to test him. 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37And he said to him, (D) "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And(E) a second is like it:(F) You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40(G) On these two commandments depend(H) all the Law and the Prophets."
 

OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor
Ok, first I want to say that I pretty much abide by Sabbatarian "laws". I just don't think that Sunday became the Sabbath. So with that in mind here's my question. How can we say that the Ten Commandments are the moral law of God which expresses His nature which doesn't ever change, and yet say that He changed the Sabbath from Sat to Sun? Now, I've read Edward's explanation on this, but it is his with which I disagree. Please don't think that I think I'm smarter than Edwards because I don't AT ALL. I've written an article showing where I think his thoughts fall apart. If you decide to read it, please don't think my tone is harsh. I just couldn't express myself and get my points across any better only because I'm not that great of a writer...which also leads people to think I'm saying something I'm not. So here is the link to my article, which I want to be read in the manner of me WANTING answers and NOT me making a statement which cannot be changed. I've put a link to my article and did not paste it here out of respect for PB.
 

Augusta

Puritan Board Doctor
Has God changed?? This is what he says he wants from his people:

13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

If you can't call the Sabbath a delight and hold it in the esteem called for in this scripture, then you probably shouldn't try. Then you will just be following do's and don't and you will be no better than the Pharisees that just followed do's and don'ts. It must come from loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. He said if we love him we will keep his commandments. Just read Psalm 119, David loved God's laws, he knew they were holy, righteous, and good. They still are, God does not change?

When he says sanctify the day and keep it holy, this means nothing common can intrude or it is no longer holy, it has been polluted. This principle is throughout the OT and it is easily seen. It is an abiding principle, and logical. It is not something that can be abbrogated or softened.

Haggai 2:11-13 (King James Version)

11 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ask now the priests concerning the law, saying,

12 If one bear holy flesh in the skirt of his garment, and with his skirt do touch bread, or pottage, or wine, or oil, or any meat, shall it be holy? And the priests answered and said, No.

13 Then said Haggai, If one that is unclean by a dead body touch any of these, shall it be unclean? And the priests answered and said, It shall be unclean.
 

greenbaggins

Administrator
Staff member
Ok, first I want to say that I pretty much abide by Sabbatarian "laws". I just don't think that Sunday became the Sabbath. So with that in mind here's my question. How can we say that the Ten Commandments are the moral law of God which expresses His nature which doesn't ever change, and yet say that He changed the Sabbath from Sat to Sun? Now, I've read Edward's explanation on this, but it is his with which I disagree. Please don't think that I think I'm smarter than Edwards because I don't AT ALL. I've written an article showing where I think his thoughts fall apart. If you decide to read it, please don't think my tone is harsh. I just couldn't express myself and get my points across any better only because I'm not that great of a writer...which also leads people to think I'm saying something I'm not. So here is the link to my article, which I want to be read in the manner of me WANTING answers and NOT me making a statement which cannot be changed. I've put a link to my article and did not paste it here out of respect for PB.
I have a rather extensive argument for the reason why God would change it. You can read it here.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
I believe Church should last much longer than it does. I think Church is far too often seen as a sermon and little else. I would absolutely love to find a Church that opens at 9 a.m. and closes at 9 p.m. but try finding me one of those.
:)

:book2::wow::amen::sing::book2::wow::amen::sing:
We start at 9:45 and go till somewhere between 4:30 and 6:00. We'd love to have y'all visit. ;)
Brother, PM and give me the details on how you do that.
 

Contra_Mundum

Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger
Staff member
Here's how I'd sum up my argument:

i) God set aside one day in seven for calling his people to worship.

ii) We have ZERO ways of knowing if our, say Tuesday happens to be a +7 multiple of the 3rd Day of Creation. In fact, its demonstrable from Scripture that it has only a 1/7 chance of being so. That is, God himself has prevented us from knowing that datum.

iii) If he has prevented it, then it isn't important that the original Sabbath (OT) was kept on a multiple of the first 7th Day. It was sufficient that the ISRAELITES kept the final day of their week holy to the Lord.

iv) The Israelites, after Sinai until the Exile, kept two "8th Day" Sabbaths per year. The way they did this was they had 48 hours of Sabbath on those occasions. And the NEXT day was ... (wait for it) ... the First (not the Second) Day of the week.

I agree with commentators who believe that Israel left Egypt with Egypt's solar calendar, and adapted for their own use. With the necessary adjustments, the regular year always began on a Sabbath; the 7th month also was supposed to begin with a Sabbath.

Just another way they were "peculiar" and always different from the rest of the nations around them. If you weren't inside the nation year round or understood their religion, you would never know which day of the week it was in Israel!

Coming back from Babylon Israel had borrowed another calendar, which they then seem to have adapted for their own use in the Return. Some form of this calendar was probably in use during Jesus' earthly days.

v) The 8th Day, then prior to the Resurrection, already had special periodic status in Israelite religion. But more importantly, if the days were "pushed off" once and again every single year in Israelite history, then no one will ever know by a calendric study which day is an exact multiple of the original "7th". Therefore, it doesn't matter to know it.

vi) Then, it could only be significant to have a week of seven days, based on God's creation week. And to keep the last day as the regular Holy Day, that too being designated.

vii) God alone regulates his worship, always. He calls the meeting; we respond to his summons. The ONLY way that we can change our meeting day is if HE changes it.

viii) Jesus is God. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus has a "Day" called the Lord's Day.

ix) Did Jesus change the Day that, as God, he calls his regular meeting with his people? The only thing we have to go by is the testimony of the NT witness. Jesus keeps meeting with the gathered saints on the First Day from Resurrection to Pentecost. And then whenever we note the day after that when the church answers the call to worship, it is the First Day.

x) The NT seems quite clear to me. Jesus/God now calls his people to worship on the day of their Savior's triumph. This shift parallels both the periodic extended Sabbaths of the OT, and the second of the twin grounds set for keeping the OT Sabbath, Dt.5:15, which was the accomplishment of Israel's salvation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top