Why Everybody, Hates John MacArthur

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RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
I am not a proponent of megachurches or even large churches for that matter, but I do see that Grace Community Church has forty elders. While MacArthur is the senior pastor he's not teaching/ruling solo. Sure, he's the "buck stops here" guy, but he is an easy and visible target anytime a controversy erupts, which is bound to happen anytime two or more redeemed sinners gather.

That was exactly my point. I highly doubt he was cognizant of all the details.
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
An examination of the facts, something Roys et all like to ignore, is very interesting: https://protestia.com/2022/03/14/judge-julie-accusing-the-shepherd/

Timelines matter.

I don't disagree with the substance of the aforementioned article. I guess it boils down to:

Did the church excommunicate her for not trying to reconcile to her husband?

To which she would likely respond that he was still abusive.

At this point, and I am not a lawyer nor the son of a lawyer, for me it would be in the court's hands on whether he was still abusive.
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
Have you listened to the podcast I posted? It is quite thorough and very balanced in my opinion. The host even confesses that he thinks GCC could’ve done better.

For the record, I didn’t post it so that people will side with MacArthur. I actually don’t really care where people come down. My point in bringing in Proverbs 18:17 is simply this: regardless of one’s conclusion in any issue, even if one ends up reaching the correct conclusion, to have done so before considering both sides and viewing sufficiently the facts is foolish. And this particular issue, I’m convinced, is far more complicated than many folks are asserting. It seems to me that most folks’ only exposure to this issue is the Roys report.

I listened to a good bit. It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. My point in regards to Proverbs 18:17 is that the Roys, for all of her faults, isn't the first to state the facts. That would be either GCC or the courts.
 

John Yap

Puritan Board Sophomore
forty elders... without speaking anything about GCC of course, when does a church ever become too big? (if it can be too big)
 

reformed grit

Puritan Board Freshman
Some of everybody think all George Foreman's kids are named George, but not all. One does well to pause and consider.
 

B.L.

Puritan Board Sophomore
forty elders... without speaking anything about GCC of course, when does a church ever become too big? (if it can be too big)

Just think how many deacons there must be! If I had to reckon a wild guess I wouldn't be shocked if there were 150-200. Lol.

On the "when does a church ever become too big" question, I've often pondered the same. My church has approximately 400 regular attendees and my family is hardly known by those charged with providing oversight. Over the years we have gravitated towards supporting church plants, but they all seem to fold after five years or so.

With regards to GCC, they are in a densely populated area, but I wonder how many faithful small churches are in the vicinity struggling because everyone flocks to the local megachurch? Alternatively, doctrinal disagreements I have with GCC distinctives aside, there are so many churches today that serve up cotton candy and spiritual empty calories that I'm not surprised to see GCC grow exponentially, so perhaps they aren't too big? I'm not sure...mixed feelings on that one.
 
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John Yap

Puritan Board Sophomore
Just think how many deacons there must be! If I had to reckon a wild guess I wouldn't be shocked if there were 150-200. Lol.

On the "when does a church ever become too big" question, I've often ponder the same. My church has approximately 400 regular attendees and my family is hardly known by those charged with providing oversight. Over the years we have gravitated towards supporting church plants, but they all seem to fold after five years or so.

With regards to GCC, they are in a densely populated area, but I wonder how many faithful small churches are in the vicinity struggling because everyone flocks to the local megachurch? Alternatively, doctrinal disagreements I have with GCC distinctives, there are so many churches today that serve up cotton candy and spiritual empty calories that I'm not surprised to see GCC grow exponentially, so perhaps they aren't too big? I'm not sure...mixed feelings on that one.

One wonder I have is.. how do you have an elders meeting with 40 elders? Practically
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
Why do so many people listen to MacArthur, this product of all the wrong schools? How can he pack out a church on Sunday morning in an age in which church attendance has seriously lagged? Here is a preacher who has nothing in the way of a winning personality, good looks, or charm. Here is a preacher who offers us nothing in the way of sophisticated homiletical packaging.

No one would suggest that he is a master of the art of oratory. What he seems to have is a witness to true authority. He recognizes in Scripture the Word of God, and when he preaches, it is Scripture that one hears. It is not that the words of John MacArthur are so interesting as it is that the Word of God is of surpassing interest. That is why one listens.
-Hughes Oliphant Old
Yours is an interesting post. On the one hand, you seem to be criticizing MacArthur and on the other hand, you commend his preaching of the Word. Based on everything I have heard, read, and seen regarding John MacArthur, I admire his dedication to preaching the Word of God. His Grace to You ministry is similar to what Ligonier has been doing for decades under the leadership of the late R.C. Sproul. In the absence of any hard evidence to back up the copious amount of attacks against MacArthur and those associated with him (like Phil Johnson), I choose the charitable approach. Actually, I would be more worried if John MacArthur was devoid of criticism.
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
Not everyone hates John MacArthur. And if anyone does hate MacArthur, then they are violating the 6th commandment and need to repent. I think we can all agree here on a board which has Confessional requirements, that MacArthur is not confessional and therefore we will disagree with him in numerous areas. With that said we should also see how he is to be commended for defending God's word in a day when too many men preach a watered down gospel and are afraid to stand for God's truth. So yes, MacArthur is by all appearances a brother in Christ, but I wouldn't recommend him to anyone because there are too many areas I disagree with him in.
 

RamistThomist

Puritanboard Clerk
Not everyone hates John MacArthur. And if anyone does hate MacArthur, then they are violating the 6th commandment and need to repent. I think we can all agree here on a board which has Confessional requirements, that MacArthur is not confessional and therefore we will disagree with him in numerous areas. With that said we should also see how he is to be commended for defending God's word in a day when too many men preach a watered down gospel and are afraid to stand for God's truth. So yes, MacArthur is by all appearances a brother in Christ, but I wouldn't recommend him to anyone because there are too many areas I disagree with him in.

Exactly. He is wrong on a number of doctrinal points and is not Reformed or Confessional. Yes, he's done a decent job in explaining expository preaching. On the other hand, his church fumbled on some discipline cases.
 

Colin

Puritan Board Freshman
Yours is an interesting post. On the one hand, you seem to be criticizing MacArthur and on the other hand, you commend his preaching of the Word. Based on everything I have heard, read, and seen regarding John MacArthur, I admire his dedication to preaching the Word of God. His Grace to You ministry is similar to what Ligonier has been doing for decades under the leadership of the late R.C. Sproul. In the absence of any hard evidence to back up the copious amount of attacks against MacArthur and those associated with him (like Phil Johnson), I choose the charitable approach. Actually, I would be more worried if John MacArthur was devoid of criticism.
Very observant Herald, It was my attempt to curtail the polemic attacks that permeate every MacArthur post.
 

Jake

Puritan Board Senior
forty elders... without speaking anything about GCC of course, when does a church ever become too big? (if it can be too big)
The largest church in my area that is in the broadly "reformed" realm is one that is similar doctrinally to GCC. Incidentally, I have been talking to some folks there leaving and some of their biggest concerns were about how the size was being managed, feeling the the growth was overwhelming the church. Plus, they're very cautious about ordaining men to office (understandably) and they've ended up in a situation where they are more like 7-8 elders for a 4-500 member congregation.
 

Rescued

Puritan Board Freshman
MacArthur loses my attention when he starts making distinctions between Israel and the church, God supposedly having two purposes for two different peoples. This flies in the face of orthodox reformed doctrine. It's safe to say that his false teaching on this issue has lead millions astray who should have pursued true biblical theology on this issue.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
MacArthur loses my attention when he starts making distinctions between Israel and the church, God supposedly having two purposes for two different peoples. This flies in the face of orthodox reformed doctrine. It's safe to say that his false teaching on this issue has lead millions astray who should have pursued true biblical theology on this issue.
It is obvious to most thoughtful Christians that MacArthur is a dyed-in-the-wool Dispensationalist. But there is no need to complicate the obvious. While MacArthur's Dispensationalism is something most of us on this board disagree with, he believes the Bible is the sole and final authority for all matters of faith and practice. I do not believe it weakens the theological resolve of anyone on this board to recognize MacArthur's love for the Word, even in the face of obvious departures from Reformed orthodoxy.
 

Rescued

Puritan Board Freshman
It is obvious to most thoughtful Christians that MacArthur is a dyed-in-the-wool Dispensationalist. But there is no need to complicate the obvious. While MacArthur's Dispensationalism is something most of us on this board disagree with, he believes the Bible is the sole and final authority for all matters of faith and practice. I do not believe it weakens the theological resolve of anyone on this board to recognize MacArthur's love for the Word, even in the face of obvious departures from Reformed orthodoxy.
Has the Christian faith been reduced to this? That as long as a man loves the Word he is to be followed? If the better half of his teaching centers around an erroneous viewpoint then why is he still allowed to have a pulpit?
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
Has the Christian faith been reduced to this? That as long as a man loves the Word he is to be followed? If the better half of his teaching centers around an erroneous viewpoint then why is he still allowed to have a pulpit?
Did I write that he should be followed? If I remember correctly I wrote that his love for the Word should be recognized. I will add that it should even be commended.

Why should he be allowed to have a pulpit? I suppose a Dispensationalist could ask the same question of a pastor who is a Covenant Theologian.

Be careful of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, or for that matter believing that you have some litmus test for doctrinal purity.

As a Baptist, my Presbyterian brethren and I have real differences. In spite of those differences, there is much that we agree on. There are times when it is right and necessary to debate our differences, but it is also right and necessary to recognize those things that we do agree on.
 
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