Chris -Originally posted by Me Died Blue
I fully agree with the observation that we persuade men because we fear God and that skill in that comes only from that understanding and fear, as I'm sure all the other presuppositionalists here would as well. But I have a problem with saying that that skill and a biblical understanding of apologetics "will be fine" automatically if we simply love Christ and strive to honor Him. I say that because there are Arminians who truly love Christ and strive to honor Him, yet have a faulty understanding of a significant aspect of His work - not because they don't love Him or aren't striving to honor Him, but because they are misreading Scripture and failing to be consistent in their systematic theology. Likewise, it is equally possible to love Christ and be genuinely focused on Him and striving to honor Him, yet have a faulty understanding of biblical apologetics for the same reason.Originally posted by Robin
You have a point. But I meant if the Christian is first, grounded in the Faith, obedient to honoring Christ FIRST, the so-called "method" will be fine....because the Holy Spirit lives in us. Jesus told the disciples to not worry about what they would say....neither should we "worry". Rather, pursuade men because we "fear God." Skill in this can only come from deep understanding of the fear of God and His mercies.
Thus, one cannot simply dismiss apologetical "methods" as being vain to focus on and automatically following from a love of Christ any more than an Arminian can dismiss the doctrines of grace as "unimportant technicalities," saying that proper doctrine will always necessarily follow simply from a true love for Christ.
I am NOT dismissing apologetics. Read my post more carefully. I am NOT referring to any confession of Christ BUT the solid grounding in the Reformed doctrines -- and/or the sound Biblical teachings (as per Romans.) The "will be fine" reference points to trust in the Holy Spirit to do what He promised. I am NOT a "neutralist" ( Bahnsen sets-up a false dilemma, characturizes and attacks all Christians different from him.) I am saying there are Christians who do a true, Godly task of apologetics who don't "fit a mold" as per Bahnsen, Van Til (or whoever else comes along.) Imagine that? God actually equips His people in such a way, that it cannot be packaged for sale (books/tapes, etc.) It must be accomplished through true discipleship.
Space will not permit...but I am emphasizing "honor" to Christ as taught in Scripture:
2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
1 Corinthians 12:14-31
For the body does not consist of one member but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose. If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, yet one body.
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.
Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? But earnestly desire the higher gifts.
And then the Apostle goes onto describe in Chapter 13 L O V E.
This is the definition of love I point to! Not a vague, subjective thing.
[Edited on 9-3-2005 by Robin]