irresistible_grace
Puritan Board Junior
If you don't use the KJV in your Corporate, Family, and/or Private worship...
Why NOT the KJV?
What Translation do you use? Why?
Why NOT the KJV?
What Translation do you use? Why?
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1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Because you have to translate it for most people. Last Bible study one of the guys read our study passage from the KJV even though I keep telling him it's not confessional in our situation:
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
and I asked a young man what it meant and he had no idea. So why not just read the Bible in English?????What are some people trying to prove?
&Jer 31:18 I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.
Jer 31:19 Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. KJV
Jer 31:18 I have heard Ephraim grieving, 'You have disciplined me, and I was disciplined, like an untrained calf; bring me back that I may be restored, for you are the LORD my God.
Jer 31:19 For after I had turned away, I relented, and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh; I was ashamed, and I was confounded, because I bore the disgrace of my youth.' ESV
Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath. KJV
Job 21:30 that the evil man is spared in the day of calamity, that he is rescued in the day of wrath? ESV
)Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
Psalm 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.
The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical; so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them. But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come, that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner; and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.
The ancestor of vulgar, the Latin word vulgris (from vulgus, "the common people"), meant "of or belonging to the common people, everyday," as well as "belonging to or associated with the lower orders." Vulgris also meant "ordinary," "common (of vocabulary, for example)," and "shared by all." An extension of this meaning was "sexually promiscuous," a sense that could have led to the English sense of "indecent." Our word, first recorded in a work composed in 1391, entered English during the Middle English period, and in Middle English and later English we find not only the senses of the Latin word mentioned above but also related senses. What is common may be seen as debased, and in the 17th century we begin to find instances of vulgar that make explicit what had been implicit. Vulgar then came to mean "deficient in taste, delicacy, or refinement." From such uses vulgar has continued to go downhill, and at present "crudely indecent" is among the commonest senses of the word.
As has been noted before, seemingly ad nasuem, the way folks are using the word "vulgar" the KJV really was not "vulgar" in 1611.
Also I have heard a lot of rumor surrounding the KJV but it being written to support the Divine Right of Kings is a new one.
Interestingly enough, the primary definition of "vulgar" found in the Oxford English Dictionary (which seems like a fairly reliable resource) does not include the notion of pertaining especially to the "low orders,"
but rather is simply refers to (in the case of English) English as opposed to _____(something else).
Can vulgar involve the concept of being contemporary? Of course. Must it? Of course not.
More importantly, are you positive the divines truly, consciously and purposefully used the term vulgar to specifically include the notion of "contemporary" such that they thereby purposefully and consciously exclude non-contemporary language? I know it has been stated here before that the WCF requires a modern translation, but are you positive (i.e., is it demonstrable) that such is exclusively what they meant?
Or rather is it possible that they meant it simply in the standard meaning of "English, not Latin, Hebrew or Greek", such as this example from 1612 taken from the Oxford English Dictionary: "I haue giuen them vulgars, or Englishes, such as I haue deuised, to be made in Latine"? I'm not in any way suggesting the WCF somehow requires an older translation or a specific translation; I am asking for any shred of evidence for the oft repeated claim that the divines' use of the term "vulgar" in the WCF necessarily invokes the legitimate subset of the definition which includes being contemporary or pertaining to the common speech of the lower orders specifically.
Why can't "is" just mean "is"?