Why the demise of the evening service.

[iainduguid]

The above dismissal of the argument from the morning and evening sacrifice misses the point of the argument. No one is arguing that it must be followed literalistically. We are merely using it to lend further weight to the contention that the light of nature teaches that God should be worshipped twice a day. Since grace does not abolish nature but perfects it, it is not surprising that the sacrifices were offered twice daily in the temple. It would seem rather odd to jettison this practice with respect to the church's corporate worship on the Lord's Day.

As with many issues, I get the impression that people are all too quick to justify declension and innovation rather than question why the traditional practice has been set aside (and I am using the term tradition in the good sense here, not in the sense of a mere human tradition).

Daniel, I apologize if I missed the point of the argument. Unfortunately, your explanation doesn't make it any clearer to me. Can you explain a) how the light of nature teaches us that we must gather in corporate worship twice a day (as opposed to teaching us that we should constantly be in worship of our creator every single moment)? And b) can you further help me understand how the command to offer a double sacrifice on each Sabbath commits us to worship corporately twice ever Sabbath, but the command to offer a sacrifice morning and afternoon every other day does not commit us to worship corporately twice every other day? After all in Numbers 28, it is only the amount of the sacrifice that varies on the Sabbath day not the time or procedure.

There's no desire here to undercut the spiritually beneficial practice of evening services. Rather, it is a growing concern that often in Reformed circles we aren't actually exegeting the relevant Biblical passages on worship very well; often we get the right doctrine from the wrong text, in a kind of proof texting that rips verses out of their proper Biblical context. And given our strong commitment to the RPW, it is absolutely essential that we have proper Biblical warrant if we are going to bind people's consciences in worship. The best argument in favor of an evening service in my view is that the whole day is the Lord's and there is no more profitable way to show and experience that than by being together with God's people to praise him and sit under his Word. On that view, were it possible to spend the whole day in church, that would be better still! But that's very different from an argument that Scripture somehow "mandates" two worship services - no more and no less - by making verses say something they never intended to convey.

 

[bookslover]

Both of Iain Duguid's posts (nos. 26 and 31) make a very important point.

I think I would build on his point by saying that a way to support having two services on the Lord's Day would be to point to the principle Jesus gives us in 1 Corinthians 11.25, where He states, concerning the Lord's Supper, "as often as you drink it" (ESV, concerning the cup, specifically). He assumes (or, better, strongly implies) that Christians will celebrate the Lord's Supper, but does not expressly or by implication command how often we will do so. Frequency is left to our discretion and sanctified common sense (as well as local circumstances, etc.).

The same principle is found in Hebrews 10.25 regarding how often Christians should meet together for worship, in the words "not neglecting to meet together" (ESV). Again, the author of Hebrews doesn't state how often that should be but, by implication, assumes that Christians will meet as a matter of course. Again, sanctified common sense and local circumstances factor in.

To use passages such as Psalm 92.2 or Psalm 113.3 to "prove" that the Bible requires two worship services on the Lord's Day comes pretty close to performing eisegesis (reading something into the Scriptures) rather than exegesis (reading something out of the Scriptures, something that is actually there, either expressly or obviously implied).

If churches wish to have two worship services on the Lord's Day, that's fine. God created us to worship Him, so I'm sure doing that in a formal way twice on the Lord's Day probably pleases Him. Let's remember, though, that the Bible does not command us to have two formal worship services on the Lord's Day. We are free to do so, but we are not required to do so.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Daniel, I apologize if I missed the point of the argument. Unfortunately, your explanation doesn't make it any clearer to me. Can you explain a) how the light of nature teaches us that we must gather in corporate worship twice a day (as opposed to teaching us that we should constantly be in worship of our creator every single moment)?

The point of the argument is that the morning and evening sacrifice demonstrates that God is to be worshipped twice a day, which accords with what we know from the light of nature that God has divided the day up into morning and evening. To formally worship God every single moment would be an impossibility.

And b) can you further help me understand how the command to offer a double sacrifice on each Sabbath commits us to worship corporately twice ever Sabbath, but the command to offer a sacrifice morning and afternoon every other day does not commit us to worship corporately twice every other day? After all in Numbers 28, it is only the amount of the sacrifice that varies on the Sabbath day not the time or procedure.

Your contention fails because you are taking the argument too literalistically. All we are saying is that the morning and evening sacrifice points to the moral principle that we should worship God twice a day. This practice is prescribed by the Westminster formularies with respect to private and family worship. If that requirement is obligatory on us as individuals and upon us as families, then how much more is it obligatory on the church on the day (not the hour) that God has set aside for the church's worship? We have no reason to suppose the general pattern of worship twice a day does not apply to the corporate worship of the church.

There's no desire here to undercut the spiritually beneficial practice of evening services.

I have no doubt that that is not your desire. To assume otherwise would be to unfairly attribute evil motives to you, which would be entirely wrong. Still, experience has shown us that the general tendency of such arguments is not conducive to Sabbath observance as required by our standards.

 

[iainduguid]

The point of the argument is that the morning and evening sacrifice demonstrates that God is to be worshipped twice a day, which accords with what we know from the light of nature that God has divided the day up into morning and evening. To formally worship God every single moment would be an impossibility.



Your contention fails because you are taking the argument too literalistically. All we are saying is that the morning and evening sacrifice points to the moral principle that we should worship God twice a day. This practice is prescribed by the Westminster formularies with respect to private and family worship. If that requirement is obligatory on us as individuals and upon us as families, then how much more is it obligatory on the church on the day (not the hour) that God has set aside for the church's worship? We have no reason to suppose the general pattern of worship twice a day does not apply to the corporate worship of the church.



I have no doubt that that is not your desire. To assume otherwise would be to unfairly attribute evil motives to you, which would be entirely wrong. Still, experience has shown us that the general tendency of such arguments is not conducive to Sabbath observance as required by our standards.

Thank you. That is really helpful in understanding your argument and demonstrating the connection between personal/family worship and corporate worship. I've often heard people argue from the twice daily Sabbath sacrifice to morning and evening worship, but you have filled in the missing link, which is that the regular twice daily sacrifice anticipates twice daily personal/family worship and the sabbath gives the opportunity for that twice daily personal/family worship to be expanded into twice a day corporate worship. That makes sense as an ideal pattern for the Christian life and connects the verse with the preceding context.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Thank you. That is really helpful in understanding your argument and demonstrating the connection between personal/family worship and corporate worship. I've often heard people argue from the twice daily Sabbath sacrifice to morning and evening worship, but you have filled in the missing link, which is that the regular twice daily sacrifice anticipates twice daily personal/family worship and the sabbath gives the opportunity for that twice daily personal/family worship to be expanded into twice a day corporate worship. That makes sense as an ideal pattern for the Christian life and connects the verse with the preceding context.

Just to be transparent, it is only in recent years that I have become convinced that we should observe personal and family worship twice a day, though I always believed we should have two services each Sabbath. I am not quite sure how I ever sought to reconcile that discrepancy in my thinking, but I suppose that we are all works in progress. Forums such as the Puritan Board and interaction with brethren such as yourself helps me to remember that we will never reach a stage where we can stop learning.

 

[bookslover]

. . .the regular twice daily sacrifice anticipates twice daily personal/family worship. . .

The next question, then, is: does the Bible explicitly or implicitly make this connection?

 

[SolamVeritatem]

Someone pointed out to me recently on Facebook and it may have been done so here as well (we have discussed this several times, and of recent time when I announced our church was starting one up again), that the Synod of Dort told ministers there were to have an evening service and to keep having one even if only the minister and his family showed up. Folks won't come if it is not offered. It's not hard to understand if a church abandons the morality of a full day for the Lord's worship, that any practical difficulties will easily seem enough to kill off the evening service.

Chris,

Not to derail or anything, but I think this thread is somewhat related to a few questions that I have.

Some churches have multiple services on Lord's Day (8:00am, 11:00am, etc.), and there is also early morning prayer and Sunday School. I know that someone else expressed that the small group phenomenon might be a reason for the decline of the evening service, but I'm wondering how much effect the "early two Sunday services" has on the resistance to gather in the evening and so forth? Also, does the fact that at least there is a "double gathering" somewhat satisfy the requirement in the minds of those who believe that there is a biblical case for morning and evening services? Especially if there is a time during the evening that a family can meditate on, discuss and pray through what was heard earlier in the congregation?

Also, do you think that the reason some churches have decided to have services much earlier is due to the fact that they might want to "clear" the rest of the Sabbath in order to observe the remainder of it at home?

 

[Rom]

Some churches have multiple services on Lord's Day (8:00am, 11:00am, etc.), and there is also early morning prayer and Sunday School.

I am not sure about the kind of congregation you have in mind. But the ones I am familiar with are larger churches which have multiple services because they cannot seat everyone in a single service or do it for convenience sake so that people can choose which service they want to go to. They are effectively the same service (same message) duplicated. I never knew anyone who attended both services. These churches I know of also don't really have any doctrine of Sabbath keeping which is why they let out early, so you can have family or recreation time. Some have Saturday evening services so you can spend your Lord's Day doing whatever you need to.

That is a bit different from what is historically done with an evening service - which is a different service (different content) where congregants (ideally) go to both services and is very much connected to honoring the Sabbath Day as a day of holy rest in communion with the Lord and fellowship with His people.

 

[SolamVeritatem]

I am not sure about the kind of congregation you have in mind. But the ones I am familiar with are larger churches which have multiple services because they cannot seat everyone in a single service or do it for convenience sake so that people can choose which service they want to go to. They are effectively the same service (same message) duplicated. I never knew anyone who attended both services. These churches I know of also don't really have any doctrine of Sabbath keeping which is why they let out early, so you can have family or recreation time. Some have Saturday evening services so you can spend your Lord's Day doing whatever you need to.

That is a bit different from what is historically done with an evening service - which is a different service (different content) where congregants (ideally) go to both services and is very much connected to honoring the Sabbath Day as a day of holy rest in communion with the Lord and fellowship with His people.

Rom,

This is very helpful, thanks brother.

Craig

 

[JM]

I was under the impression that evening services were introduced during the industrial age.

 

[SolamVeritatem]

I am not sure about the kind of congregation you have in mind. But the ones I am familiar with are larger churches which have multiple services because they cannot seat everyone in a single service or do it for convenience sake so that people can choose which service they want to go to. They are effectively the same service (same message) duplicated. I never knew anyone who attended both services. These churches I know of also don't really have any doctrine of Sabbath keeping which is why they let out early, so you can have family or recreation time. Some have Saturday evening services so you can spend your Lord's Day doing whatever you need to.

That is a bit different from what is historically done with an evening service - which is a different service (different content) where congregants (ideally) go to both services and is very much connected to honoring the Sabbath Day as a day of holy rest in communion with the Lord and fellowship with His people.

One other question Rom. You mentioned that there is "different content/different service" in the evening gathering. Would you have a problem with a minister who preached the same sermon from the morning service in the evening service? Not duplicated with the same words, of course, but the same scriptural passage preached again, perhaps highlighgting certain points that were not covered in the first sermon, or elaborating more deeply on already covered aspects? I have in mind someone else's post that conveyed how difficult (not impossible or unexpected) it is for the Lord's servant to prepare to preach two properly exegeted sermons to preach on the same day. It seems that if the pastor were at least dealing with the same text it would be easier.

 

[SolamVeritatem]

Someone else can enlighten/correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I seem to recall that when MLJ preached his evening services at Westminster Chapel that they were designed to be evangelistic.

What are your thoughts on this?

Moderaters please delete if this is not in keeping with the original intent of the OP. It's just that Chris' post opened up so many interesting questions and intriguing thoughts for me. By the way, I do not have the benefit of partaking in evening services at my current church. Our current Lord's Day is as follows:

-Morning Worship
-Sunday School (usually led by the pastor and covering the content of the sermon)

On first Sundays, Sunday School is replaced with prayer and a fellowship meal.

 

[Rom]

One other question Rom. You mentioned that there is "different content/different service" in the evening gathering. Would you have a problem with a minister who preached the same sermon from the morning service in the evening service? Not duplicated with the same words, of course, but the same scriptural passage preached again, perhaps highlighgting certain points that were not covered in the first sermon, or elaborating more deeply on already covered aspects? I have in mind someone else's post that conveyed how difficult (not impossible or unexpected) it is for the Lord's servant to prepare to preach two properly exegeted sermons to preach on the same day. It seems that if the pastor were at least dealing with the same text it would be easier.

It is a bit difficult to deal with hypotheticals, but I think this is something that should be dictated by wisdom in how the minister wants to deal with the situation. Though I will say, if some men can spend months on a single passage, then I don't see the harm in doing a similar kind of thing morning and evening.

I do believe there are plenty of ways to accomplish the evening service without becoming taxing as well. In a parallel way, sometimes men new to family worship are intimidated by it because they feel like they must make it something grand and profound. I counsel them to keep it simple at the beginning and they will grow into it in time (so will their family!).

I think the same kind of thought should be present when beginning a new evening service for a minister and congregation that is trying to figure out how to make it all work.

They might consider catechetical preaching to begin with. Or to not tax him greatly - other material he might be very familiar with - preach through the Ten Commandments. Preach the Beatitudes. Preach through the Parables. OR, preach through the same book that you are going through in the AM if that is helpful so that he doesn't have to bounce around and can just keep churning through. OR, books he has preached through for other congregations or previous calls and might be able to refresh them for the current congregation.

Lots of options - if you have the desire to have an evening service.

Start simple. Choose a few psalms and prayers. Praise the Lord. Bless the people of God. Then let them fellowship until the night comes and the people must sadly part until the next Lord's Day! I find that it is difficult to tear myself away in the evening with the thought that Monday is coming. This is what makes us long for our heaven Sabbath all the more.

See what blossoms. Do what you can and ask the Lord to bless.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I was under the impression that evening services were introduced during the industrial age.

I have in mind someone else's post that conveyed how difficult (not impossible or unexpected) it is for the Lord's servant to prepare to preach two properly exegeted sermons to preach on the same day.

I'm not a preacher and I don't recall the post referred to as to the difficulty, but I find it hard to accept that a full time minister (note the qualification; tent-makers will have additional time constraints) does not have time to do two proper sermons each Lord's Day. And that's not even saying these need to be the theological tome length affairs of the puritan age. We read of those who preached twice on Lord's Days with also a morning lecture, and also lectured or preached at least once if not more during the week? Think Calvin. And I know Durham preached at least twice each Lord's day and did a morning lecture before the sermon and took his turn by schedule for the week day lectures in Glasgow in the 1650s.

As to the evening service, it was likely more a late afternoon service until lightening made later services possible I suppose, but I don't have any historical facts to hand as to the actual time the later in the day service was before the industrial revolution. But there were two services from the reformation's beginning which I'm sure others can show was not novel but that there were vesper services before going way back in time.

 

[SolamVeritatem]

I'm not a preacher and I don't recall the post referred to as to the difficulty

Chris, you're correct in this. I looked back through the thread and realized that I had misread what someone else had stated.

Thanks for the clarification and your thoughts though. Very helpful.

Craig

 

[SolamVeritatem]

It is a bit difficult to deal with hypotheticals, but I think this is something that should be dictated by wisdom in how the minister wants to deal with the situation. Though I will say, if some men can spend months on a single passage, then I don't see the harm in doing a similar kind of thing morning and evening.

I do believe there are plenty of ways to accomplish the evening service without becoming taxing as well. In a parallel way, sometimes men new to family worship are intimidated by it because they feel like they must make it something grand and profound. I counsel them to keep it simple at the beginning and they will grow into it in time (so will their family!).

I think the same kind of thought should be present when beginning a new evening service for a minister and congregation that is trying to figure out how to make it all work.

They might consider catechetical preaching to begin with. Or to not tax him greatly - other material he might be very familiar with - preach through the Ten Commandments. Preach the Beatitudes. Preach through the Parables. OR, preach through the same book that you are going through in the AM if that is helpful so that he doesn't have to bounce around and can just keep churning through. OR, books he has preached through for other congregations or previous calls and might be able to refresh them for the current congregation.

Lots of options - if you have the desire to have an evening service.

Start simple. Choose a few psalms and prayers. Praise the Lord. Bless the people of God. Then let them fellowship until the night comes and the people must sadly part until the next Lord's Day! I find that it is difficult to tear myself away in the evening with the thought that Monday is coming. This is what makes us long for our heaven Sabbath all the more.

See what blossoms. Do what you can and ask the Lord to bless.

Rom,

These are all wonderful suggestions, and praise the Lord that your Sabbath is filled with such joy with the people of God.

Craig

 

[Rom]

I'm not a preacher and I don't recall the post referred to as to the difficulty, but I find it hard to accept that a full time minister (note the qualification; tent-makers will have additional time constraints) does not have time to do two proper sermons each Lord's Day. And that's not even saying these need to be the theological tome length affairs of the puritan age. We read of those who preached twice on Lord's Days with also a morning lecture, and also lectured or preached at least once if not more during the week? Think Calvin. And I know Durham preached at least twice each Lord's day and did a morning lecture before the sermon and took his turn by schedule for the week day lectures in Glasgow in the 1650s.

As to the evening service, it was likely more a late afternoon service until lightening made later services possible I suppose, but I don't have any historical facts to hand as to the actual time the later in the day service was before the industrial revolution. But there were two services from the reformation's beginning which I'm sure others can show was not novel but that there were vesper services before going way back in time.

Sermon preparation is a bit like anything else, a man will use all the time that he can, typically. So a man who is used to having an entire week for preparation often feels daunted with the prospect of having a second sermon to prepare. I know this because I can prepare a sermon in a day (as when my pastor became ill on a Friday night) or in a few weeks (as in preaching assignments for Seminary).

Good time management (for a full time man as you state) should ordinarily allow him to have more than enough time for two sermons. My own pastor is a tent-maker and he gets two worship services prepared every week.

 

[Poimen]

Let it be held and argued that there is no biblical command to come together more than once on the Lord's Day but when God, by his providence, calls us together, we should be there with his people at the appointed time because he promises to meet with us.

That is to say, that these arguments seem to come down to our estimation of the means of grace and the public assemblies of the church. In such times as ours they are viewed lightly, as many other aspects of the Christian life (the Sabbath, Christian families etc.). But may it not be said of us whose spiritual ancestors were hindered from meeting, even threatened while doing so, and yet attended on the means of grace with the hunger that is requisite for strangers and pilgrims in the world (Psalm 84:1ff. cf. Matthew 5:6).

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Francis Roberts on the morning and evening sacrifice.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I know my church is one of the few in the Denver metro area that does an evening service. Even for ours, it is typically a very slim crowd. The disregard for ending the Lord's Day in worship has been a source of great sadness for my wife and I. Thanks for sharing.

I suppose this is a different perspective, and I have not read all of the posts yet. My aim is to be helpful to some who may be in my situation. I do not consider myself one with a low view of corporate worship. Maybe you will disagree

I love and support my church with the tithe, prayer and the a.m. worship service. But the love is based more on the love of Christ than what sometimes (often) takes place in our worship services. I will not go into any detail except this one anecdote. A member of our congregation offered to anonymously donate 100 copies of the new Trinity Psalter to encourage Psalm singing. He was told that it had to be discussed by the elders and run by the music and choir leader. Three months later it is still "under discussion."

My church does not have an evening service, but if they did, I am rather sure that my wife and I would not attend. And this would be due to our desire to worship on the Lord's Day and not to escape it. I get up very early every day and spend up to three hours in prayer, study, and worship. And on the Sabbath, corporate worship in the a.m., and the rest of the day in private reading and worship at home. In my situation and opinion, it would detract way too much from keeping the Lord's Day to spent another three-hour round-trip going back to our church.