Why we should not celebrate lent

[Romans922]

Why should we not celebrate lent? Are there any articles or online resources that could be a critique against lent??? Thanks.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

I don't know of any articles or online resources -- maybe someone else will -- but we had a recent thread about Lent:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/presbyterians-celebrating-lent-45111/

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

What does it add to the gospel?

Is it an element or circumstance of public worship?

How do you justify its importation into public worship based upon the confessional standards?

 

[Laura]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

 

[Marrow Man]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

Wow! What a great article! I generally loathe the Church calendar, but I had never thought about the pagan cyclical allusions before. Thanks for linking that!

 

[ZackF]

Why should we not celebrate lent? Are there any articles or online resources that could be a critique against lent??? Thanks.

"Celebrating" Lent is a misnomer anyway. For those interested it is "observing" Lent given that it is a special and intense time of study and reflection on one's sin and the suffering of Our Lord. If it is excluded on biblical grounds I would think it be for the same reasons all other traditional Christocentric holy days and seasons are. I see no reason to single out Lent and keep Advent, Pentecost, Easter, Christmas and so forth. I am not referring to rituals with ashes and holy water but only the season per se.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

Indeed, this is extremely helpful!

 

[ww]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

Thank You Laura for the article by Dr Fesko. I had never read of the argument regarding the Linear view of Time rather than Cyclical so it was beneficial.

 

[ww]

Why should we not celebrate lent? Are there any articles or online resources that could be a critique against lent??? Thanks.

"Celebrating" Lent is a misnomer anyway. For those interested it is "observing" Lent given that it is a special and intense time of study and reflection on one's sin and the suffering of Our Lord. If it is excluded on biblical grounds I would think it be for the same reasons all other traditional Christocentric holy days and seasons are. I see no reason to single out Lent and keep Advent, Pentecost, Easter, Christmas and so forth. I am not referring to rituals with ashes and holy water but only the season per se.

Good Point Zack! I was about to ask that question myself of Laura but then I found this article by Dr Fesko which explains his position on Christmas. Geneva Orthodox Presbyterian Church - Should we celebrate Christmas?

 

[Marrow Man]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

Thank You Laura for the article by Dr Fesko. I had never read of the argument regarding the Linear view of Time rather than Cyclical so it was beneficial.

I think I have an answer/rebuttal to this in my head, but what might we say to someone who stated that the Jews in the OT period likewise observed a calendar that was "cyclical" in nature, yet they were not pagan?

 

[DonP]

I think any church or denomination can call for a fast and prayer time as they see it will serve the church and glorify God.

Now if they want to make one annual I see no reason not to do that.

This has been done in the history of the church, though not an annual perpetual one unless you consider the US thanksgiving one of those, just not celebrated well.

In His Service,

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Why should we not celebrate lent? Are there any articles or online resources that could be a critique against lent??? Thanks.

"Celebrating" Lent is a misnomer anyway. For those interested it is "observing" Lent given that it is a special and intense time of study and reflection on one's sin and the suffering of Our Lord. If it is excluded on biblical grounds I would think it be for the same reasons all other traditional Christocentric holy days and seasons are. I see no reason to single out Lent and keep Advent, Pentecost, Easter, Christmas and so forth. I am not referring to rituals with ashes and holy water but only the season per se.

Certainly nothing wrong with an individual setting aside a special period for fasting, prayer, reflection on one’s sin and the grace we have in Christ. Hopefully, we do this regularly; and such themes are encouraged regularly in public worship and preaching.

However, to have a man made “holy” season incorporated into public worship is to add unwarranted elements to worship.

Same with Advent, Christ-Mass, Good Friday, Easter, Ascension and Pentecost. None of them are commanded. The themes of Incarnation, Atonement, Resurrection, Christ’s Exaltation, the Church’s empowerment, and Christ’s Parousia, all have their place in regular public worship and preaching; without the man made accouterment of special days or season not commanded

 

[ww]

Here's an article by my pastor on why we don't use the church calendar generally.

Thank You Laura for the article by Dr Fesko. I had never read of the argument regarding the Linear view of Time rather than Cyclical so it was beneficial.

I think I have an answer/rebuttal to this in my head, but what might we say to someone who stated that the Jews in the OT period likewise observed a calendar that was "cyclical" in nature, yet they were not pagan?

 

[OPC'n]

Is it a biblical command?

 

[Tim]

Imagine someone from a completely non-Christian area such as some small village in China or one of the Arab/Muslim states. How would you argue for such a practice when they ask,

"Why do you do this? I have now read the Bible for myself and I do not see anything like this in scripture!"

Simple, eh?

 

[Marrow Man]

I think I have an answer/rebuttal to this in my head, but what might we say to someone who stated that the Jews in the OT period likewise observed a calendar that was "cyclical" in nature, yet they were not pagan?

My thinking was someone might come along and say, "The Jews celebrated 'cyclical' holy days; they were on the calendar every year, they weren't pagan (because they were commanded by God), etc., etc." How might one refute the charge (voiced by Fesko) that observing a calendar of reoccurring holidays is pagan since the Jews did that but their weren't pagan.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

I think any church or denomination can call for a fast and prayer time as they see it will serve the church and glorify God.

Now if they want to make one annual I see no reason not to do that.

Note: Some critical texts of the WCF have a comma after the word "thanksgivings" and before "upon special occasions," which might effect our understanding of the text.

...beside religious oaths, vows, solemn fastings, and thanksgivings, upon special occasions, which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in a holy and religious manner.​

With the comma, "upon special occasions" must be read as applying to "oaths, vows, solemn fastings and thanksgivings" equally. Thus, special occasions which might lead to "oaths, vows," and "solemn fastings" would be similar to those determining "thanksgivings."

An appendix to the Directory for the Public Worship of God is more specific regarding thanksgivings:

Festival days, vulgarly called Holy-days, having no warrant in the word of God, are not to be continued.

Nevertheless, it is lawful and necessary, upon special emergent occasions, to separate a day or days for publick fasting or thanksgiving, as the several eminent and extraordinary dispensations of God's providence shall administer cause and opportunity to his people.​

It seems these "emergent occasions" were, just that, occasional, extraordinary providential events leading to a church or state setting aside an opportunity for special thanksgiving. These were not regular annual or seasonal feast days.

Our Thanksgiving Day, is a civil "holiday," determined by the federal government. There is nothing wrong with the President calling for a day of thanking God for his general providence. We may or may not gather as a church to offer thanks on such a day, as the elders think best. However, it is no different from Memorial Day or the Fourth of July.

That said, outside of 52 Lord’s Days, Thanksgiving is my favorite day of the year, as it is the closest thing we have in America to a national Sabbath, when most people actually cease from work. It is a pleasure to take a walk or short drive and note how peaceful everything is.

 

[DonP]

If a church can call a solemn day, what would prohibit them from saying lets call this each year?

Now of course they couldn't mandate this on all Christians, but a denomination could on its churches.

It doesn't even have to be a day of formal worship that would fall under the Reg Principle.

They are free to call for a day of property maintenance, or feasting.

As for Thanksgiving in the US, I have no regard for what the govt calls for or calls religious or not. I was thinking maybe an early church who celebrated thanksgiving with the Indians could have continued to do that annually, and it would have been fine to have a solemn feast annually.

I have never heard that a church feast had to be under the RP. Our monthly pot providence family meals at church are not.
And of course there are warrants for these in scripture.

I don't like Christ's mass, East Star, Hallows Eve, birthdays, or any other pagan holyday or lima beans!

And I don't think the church should keep a govt invented holiday just to show separation from the world rather than conformity, even if it was a good thing like thanksgiving.
so who invented Thanksgiving, the govt or the church, and then the govt picked it up.
If the govt decided to make Sunday a holiday I would not stop celebrating it just because the state does too.
In His Service,

 

[Laura]

I think I have an answer/rebuttal to this in my head, but what might we say to someone who stated that the Jews in the OT period likewise observed a calendar that was "cyclical" in nature, yet they were not pagan?

My thinking was someone might come along and say, "The Jews celebrated 'cyclical' holy days; they were on the calendar every year, they weren't pagan (because they were commanded by God), etc., etc." How might one refute the charge (voiced by Fesko) that observing a calendar of reoccurring holidays is pagan since the Jews did that but their weren't pagan.

Because the Jewish holy days were linear in that they pointed forward to Christ? It wasn't just a cycle of festivals for the sake of festivals; it was all moving closer each year to the event of Christ's coming.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

My thinking was someone might come along and say, "The Jews celebrated 'cyclical' holy days; they were on the calendar every year, they weren't pagan (because they were commanded by God), etc., etc." How might one refute the charge (voiced by Fesko) that observing a calendar of reoccurring holidays is pagan since the Jews did that but their weren't pagan.

Because the Jewish holy days were linear in that they pointed forward to Christ? It wasn't just a cycle of festivals for the sake of festivals; it was all moving closer each year to the event of Christ's coming.

They also don't seem to relate to each other in a (cyclical) narrative way. The pagan cycle seems connected to the seasons, and each festival leads into the next. But the Jewish festivals point to specific events in the past, which hint at specific events in the future, rather than reflecting nature. Is that accurate?

 

[Marrow Man]

Yes, excellent answers, ladies!

 

[Whitefield]

But the Jewish festivals point to specific events in the past, which hint at specific events in the future, rather than reflecting nature.

Advent would fit this pattern.

 

[ww]

Yes, excellent answers, ladies!

Umm. wow I really need to brush up on my exegesis and theology as I was just whipped by 2 women.

 

[Marrow Man]

Yes, excellent answers, ladies!

Umm. wow I really need to brush up on my exegesis and theology as I was just whipped by 2 women.

You should learn the virtue of silence, my friend! I assumed that my question was not clear and that's why you posted the !

 

[Ex Nihilo]

But the Jewish festivals point to specific events in the past, which hint at specific events in the future, rather than reflecting nature.

Advent would fit this pattern.

Taken individually, maybe, but the issue in Dr. Fesko's article is the way the events on the liturgical calendar relate to each other in a cyclical way. Also, while the theological emphasis of Advent fits the pattern, celebrating it in winter does not. The timing seems to be borrowed from a pagan calendar, and it does not reflect the actual historical date of Christ's birth -- instead playing on a feeling of similarity between the season and the story of Christ's birth. That is arguably okay, but the main point is whether Dr. Fesko's critique can consistently apply to the liturgical calendar and not to the Jewish festivals, and I think it can.

 

[Whitefield]

The timing seems to be borrowed from a pagan calendar, and it does not reflect the actual historical date of Christ's birth -- instead playing on a feeling of similarity between the season and the story of Christ's birth.

Just curious .. when was the actual historical date of Christ's birth?

 

[Ex Nihilo]

The timing seems to be borrowed from a pagan calendar, and it does not reflect the actual historical date of Christ's birth -- instead playing on a feeling of similarity between the season and the story of Christ's birth.

Just curious .. when was the actual historical date of Christ's birth?

Well, we don't know, do we? But isn't it the case that it probably wasn't December, and was more likely in the spring? My point is that the timing of Advent wasn't chosen because it had anything to do with history.

 

[Whitefield]

The timing seems to be borrowed from a pagan calendar, and it does not reflect the actual historical date of Christ's birth -- instead playing on a feeling of similarity between the season and the story of Christ's birth.

Just curious .. when was the actual historical date of Christ's birth?

Well, we don't know, do we? But isn't it the case that it almost certainly wasn't December, and was more likely in the spring? My point is that the timing of Advent wasn't chosen because it had anything to do with history.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone to observe a liturgical calendar. I find my personal observance of a loose liturgical calendar helpful in reciting the events of sacred history. The evidence against my doing so has not been sufficient to convince me that it is wrong or the actions of a weaker brother.

 

[ww]

Yes, excellent answers, ladies!

Umm. wow I really need to brush up on my exegesis and theology as I was just whipped by 2 women.

You should learn the virtue of silence, my friend! I assumed that my question was not clear and that's why you posted the !

I've always had a hard time keeping my mouth shut.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone to observe a liturgical calendar. I find my personal observance of a loose liturgical calendar helpful in reciting the events of sacred history. The evidence against my doing so has not be sufficient to convince me that it is wrong or the actions of a weaker brother.

That makes sense to me. I am not really trying to make a case against observance of a loose calendar so much as I am defending the internal consistency of Dr. Fesko's stance.