William Twisse: Does God desire the repentance of the reprobate?

[Reformed Covenanter]

But, whereas God is said to will the thing that he commands, here ariseth a question, how that can be said to be willed by God, which most commonly is not accomplished? For, albeit the will of command is accomplished, by the commanding of this or that, yet God’s will of the thing commanded seems not to be accomplished, unless the thing willed by God be sometimes brought to pass. The truth is, your opinion seems to be, That God not only willeth the salvation of the world, upon the condition of their repentance, (for that is no more to will their salvation, than their damnation) but that God willeth and desireth their salvation absolutely, in as much as he willeth and desireth their repentance.

I confess you do not in express terms profess as much; namely, that God willeth and desireth the repentance of Reprobates; yet hitherto you seem to tend, in this discourse of yours, though concerning this you say no more than this, That God gives means to help them to the performance of this obedience, so far as is meet for him: which while you profess, I doubt you understand not your own meaning; and therefore no marvel if others do not understand it: For, how far he doth help them, you express in a very uncertain manner; which is rather to conceal, than to discover and express your meaning. But I will endeavour to bolt it out. ...

For more, see William Twisse: Does God desire the repentance of the reprobate?

 

[alexandermsmith]

So...no?

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

Yeah I am left a little confounded too.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

William Twisse is pretty hard to understand at the best of times. He is basically saying "no" in a very convoluted way.

 

[chuckd]

God cannot desire something that is not accomplished. The reprobate do not repent. Therefore, God did not desire their repentance.

Unless you use different meanings of desire in my first and last sentence. Which Mr. Twisse will endeavour to bolt out.

 

[Taylor]

Premillennialists and their word salads...

 

[alexanderjames]

God cannot desire something that is not accomplished. The reprobate do not repent. Therefore, God did not desire their repentance.

Unless you use different meanings of desire in my first and last sentence. Which Mr. Twisse will endeavour to bolt out.

Isn’t that why theologians differentiate when speaking of God’s will?

I personally believe it is very dangerous to make such a statement as you have, which appears to fly in the face of 2 Peter 3:9. EDIT * 1 Timothy 2:4 * (Yes I realise some believe this “all” only relates to “all kinds of men” or the elect).

 

[Taylor]

(Yes I realise some believe this “all” only relates to the elect).

Here is what Peter says: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." Peter is not saying God does not wish that a generic "any" should perish, but rather, grammatically speaking, God is not wishing that any "of you" (i.e., the believers to whom Peter is writing) should perish.

 

[alexanderjames]

Sorry I meant to cite 1 Timothy 2:4 instead of Peter.

I generally accept the interpretation you put forward here Taylor. ^

 

[Taylor]

Sorry I meant to cite 1 Timothy 2:4 instead of Peter.

So, what does it mean that God "desires all men to be saved"?

 

[alexanderjames]

So, what does it mean that God "desires all men to be saved"?

Just what it says. That in some sense God desires all men to be saved.
I probably stand along the lines of what Spurgeon said on this passage.
Ezekiel 33:11 comes to mind.

 

[Taylor]

Just what it says. That in some sense God desires all men to be saved.

I know what it says. What does it mean? In what "sense" does God desire all men to be saved? I'm asking a genuine question.

 

[alexanderjames]

I believe that it means at least in the sense of God’s preceptive will.
God loves the good and hates the evil and therefore I believe it follows that God in this sense desires all to come to repentance.
I don’t believe this is at odds with the fact that He chooses to harden some to damnation.

I’d probably point to John Murray on the sincerity of the free offer of the Gospel for a more full articulation.

 

[timfost]

"You sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Not that the testimony that I receive is from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved. He was a burning and shining lamp, and you were willing to rejoice for a while in his light. But the testimony that I have is greater than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to accomplish, the very works that I am doing, bear witness about me that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen, and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life." (John 5:33-40)