Wilson: Federal Vision No More?

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I read somewhere Owen said something along the lines that Baxter needed to go back to school. I don't this will have any different result.
 
MW said:
Thankyou, Tyler, for that background information. Does Doug Wilson properly distinguish the active and passive obedience of Christ? I recall a video where he equates active obedience with Christ's life and passive obedience with His death and resurrection. There was nothing about the preceptive and punitive relation to the law. Are there any publications or media where he makes a proper distinction.
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Rev. Winzer,

You may be referring to this video. He refers to the imputation of Christ's active obedience as "his perfect, sinless life being ... imputed to his people." He refers to the imputation of Christ's passive obedience as "his sacrifice on the cross."

I may be missing something, but it seems that he is saying that Christ's meritorious obedience to the law (active obedience) is imputed to his people, as well as his suffering the penalty for the breaking of that law (passive obedience).

I'll also say that, when it comes to this video and others like it, Wilson is speaking off the cuff, and is only giving a "short and sweet" answer to questions from ordinary Christians. That is to say, the "Ask Doug" videos should not be thought of as a representation of just what Wilson would say if he were to give the fullest, most precise presentation of what he believes.
 
TylerRay said:
I may be missing something, but it seems that he is saying that Christ's meritorious obedience to the law (active obedience) is imputed to his people, as well as his suffering the penalty for the breaking of that law (passive obedience).
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Perhaps he holds this and does not state it as clearly as he might, but as an impartial listener I don't hear an affirmation of the doctrine; the listener must assume he holds it and interpret him accordingly.
 
greenbaggins said:
I have written an open letter to Wilson on the blog now.
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@greenbaggins Lane,
I quit responding on blogs a long time ago. It got to be a task for me to keep up on things. Especially when dealing with DGH. I actually like him. I find him to be honest and ignorant at the same time. LOL. Or should I say ignorant and then honest about some of his lack of propriety? Anyways, I actually posted on your blog. Here was my reply.

As someone who has been somewhat controversial, I would admonish Doug Wilson to seek a good place of known Respectable Men to be accountable to. That has been a place I found to be refining and protecting. It refined me. God protected me and His testimony. The later is what I really desired. I want God’s Testimony to be true through my life. And my critics where some of his as I criticized them. I have been justified in my some of my criticisms by the OPC report.

Finding a place of submission among those whose conversation is good (their way of life) is of vital importance. I would admonish DW to seek that out and to keep clear of things that are and might be found confusing. All of NAPARC spoke on the issues of the Federal Vision. Their voices were one. He needs to deal with that. It is a good place to start.

Heb 13:5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Heb 13:6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”
Heb 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God. Consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Heb 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.
Heb 13:18 Pray for us, for we are sure that we have a clear conscience, desiring to act honorably in all things.

If Doug Wilson wants to be right with God and good men then he has some work to do. One place to start would be to find some good authority to submit to in my estimation. If he doesn’t believe that exists in NAPARC then let it be known he is not one of us. He seems to be claiming to be.

In Humility
Randy Martin Snyder
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PuritanCovenanter said:
@greenbaggins Lane,
I quit responding on blogs a long time ago. It got to be a task for me to keep up on things. Especially when dealing with DGH. I actually like him. I find him to be honest and ignorant at the same time. LOL. Or should I say ignorant and then honest about some of his lack of propriety? Anyways, I actually posted on your blog. Here was my reply.
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Amen 100%. I know everyone is excited because it looks like Wilson is repenting (he isn't), but the proof is in the pudding. Will he step down from power and hold himself accountable to other men who aren't yes men?
 
Yes, Randy, I agree with your comment, and I think Alan Strange's comment is important, too. Just how catholic is Wilson, anyway? Not very much, if you look at his thumbing of the nose at all the NAPARC denominations who have rejected the FV.
 
Good day Gents. I read some of this thread and was kinda confused. I didn't know anything about Doug Wilson hurting people before I read this. My church has a pretty strong relationship with Christ church and Pastor Doug. Would anyone have an article explaining what he has done? Also explaining what Federal Vision is?

Thanks guys
 
JesusIsLord said:
Good day Gents. I read some of this thread and was kinda confused. I didn't know anything about Doug Wilson hurting people before I read this. My church has a pretty strong relationship with Christ church and Pastor Doug. Would anyone have an article explaining what he has done? Also explaining what Federal Vision is?

Thanks guys
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Oh, that's a long question. A lot of the posts above deal with Wilson's failures, I think.
As for FV, it is a form of hyper covenantalism emerging from Norm Shepherd's teaching. In sum justification is turned on its head and it becomes Catholicism without a pope.
 
arapahoepark said:
Oh, that's a long question. A lot of the posts above deal with Wilson's failures, I think.
As for FV, it is a form of hyper covenantalism emerging from Norm Shepherd's teaching. In sum justification is turned on its head and it becomes Catholicism without a pope.
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Oh no. They have a pope.
 
Mod...

Let's remind ourselves of the obligations of the ninth commandment when discussing this matter, especially the individuals involved. Posts laden with scoffery and shadenfreude are beyond the bounds. Stick to the facts without untoward seasoning.
 
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Mod...

Let's remind ourselves of the obligations of the ninth commandment when discussing this matter, especially the individuals involved. Posts laden with scoffery and shadenfreude are beyond the bounds. Stick to the facts without untoward seasoning.
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I've seen first hand the damage he has done to my community. Even those who disagree with him in my community have still been infected by him. I wasn't joking about hiding your women from him. I was deadly serious.
 
No. I wasn't going for Schadenfreude. In order for that to obtain, his ministry must be in ashes and the CREC disbanded. Since that didn't happen, I couldn't have been gloating.

But to prove that any doctrinal repentance didn't happen, read the initial comments to his post, "Straight outa Calvin." A Federal Visionist asks him, quite reasonably, to stop posting until other FVers get this figured out, Wilson responds, "Why should I?"

Wilson. Is. Not. Accountable. To. Men.

Given his quasi-godlike status in the CREC, Wilson's earlier post probably created an earthquake. This is their identity, both spiritually and personally (since Wilsonista membership negates previous ties). That is why some FVers are asking Wilson to stop posting.
 
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Mod...

Let's remind ourselves of the obligations of the ninth commandment when discussing this matter, especially the individuals involved. Posts laden with scoffery and shadenfreude are beyond the bounds. Stick to the facts without untoward seasoning.
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There are going to be some readers of this thread who will need to hear the facts. Calling Wilson derogatory names without factual disclosure is harmful and will turn off inquirers sometimes. It might fit well with a group of people who know the situation. We also need to be careful to not involve ourselves with gossip. I am prone to listen and speak sometimes in a manner that needs reeled in to being mindful of biblical standards. I have had to repent from such sin. So I am in agreement with Mr. Religion here. I know there are some sore spots in lives and that tends to cause us to paint things in a darker manner than is needful when we speak. Please heed the Moderator's admonition.
 
PuritanCovenanter said:
There are going to be some readers of this thread who will need to hear the facts. Calling Wilson derogatory names without factual disclosure is harmful and will turn off inquirers sometimes. It might fit well with a group of people who know the situation. We also need to be careful to not involve ourselves with gossip. I am prone to listen and speak sometimes in a manner that needs reeled in to being mindful of biblical standards. I have had to repent from such sin. So I am in agreement with Mr. Religion here. I know there are some sore spots in lives and that tends to cause us to paint things in a darker manner than is needful when we speak. Please heed the Moderator's admonition.
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Everything I said was backed up with facts. Police documents and even court cases. Aside from calling him the pope of the CREC, I am not sure what "name" I called him.
 
Mod...

Let's not belabor my previous moderation note any longer. I named no names in that post as it was intended for all of us. If my caution speaks to you personally, then take it under advisement, if it does not, then rest in your peace with the matter.

I remind all:

We reserve the rights to remove or modify any Content submitted for any reason without explanation.

...we must be tireless in upholding the good name of our neighbor at all costs even if we're critical. Christ demands it of us toward our enemies and especially toward those that name Christ.

Anyone that feels inwardly provoked to continue commenting on this matter is free to contact me privately.
 
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