I don't see the big deal. Does it have to do with the amount of fermentation? I worked in the wine industry for several years and one thing you learn is all, I mean all, grape juice has a certain amount of alchol or fermentation. Fermentation begins when the grape begins to ripen and just keeps going unless checked. But even that Welch' Grape Juice has a trace of alcohol and fermentation. So what is the big deal about using one or the other or both?
Wine or Grape Juice?
- Thread starter Swampguy
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Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Beer! The German choice!
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel
Wine is what Christ instituted, and now commands us to partake in. Who are we to change it?
It is a slippery slope to allow grape juice instead of wine. What's next, Pizza and Pepsi?
It makes you feel warm inside.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by joshua
My Baptist church uses Welch's® Signature Series Communion Juice from fresh 100% pure grape concentrate squozen by the good New England yankees at Welch's.
:bigsmile:
Too be serious for a change, sometimes I think the rigid formalism either way is bothersome... Christianity is not about pomp and ritualism. Wine can considered be wine at any stage of fermentation... Focus on the significance and purpose behind the communion ordinance and not the alcohol percentage per volume. I know a pastor that said he would use wine, but around in his area it might be a cause for someone grumbling and presumably people that don't mind wine are less likely to complain about not having wine. I gladly use wine and would if I were pastor.
In final appeal, what does the Apostle Paul say about what we eat and and drink, and the weaker brother? Enough said. This is just as relevant to communion as anything.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
I understand on the weaker brother thing. However, recently that is being overdone. If you think about, we can normatize any cultural norm that way
Secondly, John Murray would not serve communion if the wine was not alcoholic, so high was his christology.
Secondly, John Murray would not serve communion if the wine was not alcoholic, so high was his christology.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Yeah, I find the fundamentalist legalism bothersome too. Well-- consider yourself fortunate you live in the deep south and don't have to put up with this. I have two fountainheads of dispensationalism showering us Virginians (in Virginia Beach and Lynchburg, cough-cough... Robertson and Falwell) with their non-alcoholic Christianity. Even outsiders have a way of influencing some Reformed churches here in Virginia -- and pastors opt for the reluctant compromise I just mentioned. But I still think rigidity either way is unneccessary.
By the way, what's the alcohol content of the water you Presbyterians baptize your babies with?
[Edited on 9-4-2005 by Puritanhead]
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
That's exactly why it is irrelevant and we shouldn't dwell on it... I understand the aversion people have to fundamentalist views on alcohol, and the use of more fermented wine in Communion... but it's not important and I think insistence on a formalism for having fermented wine is superfluous. It is not as if Jesus gave us a set alcohol content per volume attendant to the ordinance.
[Edited on 9-4-2005 by Puritanhead]
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Oh well, I just never met a Louisianan that shyed from 'shine. Maybe I operate from presumption, but I don't see how the evangelical subculture could be as cheesy and legalistic down there as it is in Virginia.
[Edited on 9-4-2005 by Puritanhead]
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
wine
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
ty
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Well if Jesus made water into wine then why debate....
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
Where is it said grape juice such as Welch's has alcohol in it??
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by joshua
On the label, Sherlock! Just kidding. No offense. I love you. Sorry. I repent.
I'm going to go look right now (I have a bottle of red grape juice in the fridge) and if it isn't on the label, I'm going to beat you up.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
crhoades
Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by joshua
Folks, the above statement is an example of the reason why the fundamentalists have been driven to their insanity.
I was raised General Baptist of the 5 point remonstrant variety. Tee-totaling, dry county.
Interesting side note - the first time that my Dad ever tasted alcohol/wine was when they visited my church and had communion...
crhoades
Puritan Board Graduate
Nope. And does that ever wreak havoc on one. Can't count the number of times I "re-dedicated" my life. It's as works as they come. Altar calls every Sunday...looking back and going back a half-dozen times or so makes me want to call it spiritual rape. Harsh, I know...but I have told my parents that I will never step foot inside their again save to preach a sermon on justification by grace alone through faith alone.
Oh yeah, they use grape juice and only observe the "memorial" once a quarter.
[Edited on 9-4-2005 by crhoades]
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
ROTFL!!!
blhowes
Puritan Board Professor
I know some have strong convictions that it should be wine. I've at times wondered how important the wine vs grape juice issue is - the reason being, I was saved in 1976 and in all the time since (or before, for that matter) I've never attended a church that served wine at the Lord's supper.
WrittenFromUtopia
Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by joshua
On the label, Sherlock
It is not on the label. Is there any documentation about this on their site?
crhoades
Puritan Board Graduate
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