Witnessing In Beloit, Wisconsin

[BobVigneault]

Hey if you come to Beloit, WI to witness you might want to bring some clean underwear and socks for your stay in the slammer. Or you can just keep that witnessing in the church where it belongs boy!!!!

From the Janesville Gazette, 8/14:

Pastor: Police used undue force

By Gina Duwe
[email protected]

A Beloit pastor arrested after trying to spread the word of God to two teen boys in a fast food parking lot says police used excessive force on him.

But the incident scared the 13-year-olds to the point that they hid behind the restaurant and called 911.

David J. Fogderud, 64, of 3545 S. Riverside Drive, Beloit, was arrested the night of Aug. 2 on charges of disorderly conduct and resisting an officer, according to Janesville police reports.

Fogderud is a founder of The Overflowing Cup Total Life Center in Beloit.

Fogderud said he was taking a man to detox when they stopped at Burger King, 400 W. Centerway. While parked in the lot, he said he saw two teenage boys hanging around the doorway.

He called, "Hey kids, come here," he said.

"I was just going to witness to them about Christ and tell them about a music festival."

The boys said, "No," and walked away.

Fogderud recalls thinking it was neat that they didn't talk to strangers.

The frightened boys, however, told police they didn't feel comfortable and walked into the restaurant where they stayed for several minutes before leaving. Meanwhile Fogderud had pulled through the drive-through and parked outside the door, according to police reports.

Fogderud again called out to the boys, but the boys told police they were scared and walked behind the building, where they hid and called 911, according to reports.

One of the boys told The Janesville Gazette he and his friend were skateboarding when the truck pulled in.

"They kept staring at us, like dead center staring at us," he said.

The boy said he wouldn't have thought Fogderud was a pastor based on the exchange.

"I was not going to go up to the truck," he said. "We were thinking, I don't know, like they wanted to try and get some information from us, try and get us into the car, and that's why we kept walking."

Police responded and pulled over Fogderud's truck on Centerway at Main Street.

According to police reports:

Fogderud was argumentative and not cooperative with officers and questioned why he was pulled over. He refused several times to get out of the vehicle. Officer Michael Blaser eventually patted down Fogderud and found a small knife in his pocket.

Officers handcuffed Fogderud and took him to the police department where he refused to be fingerprinted. He told officers several times that, "if you let me go, I will forgive you."

Fogderud told the Gazette officers were rude and manhandled and disrespected him.

"They didn't explain anything. They treated me with brutal force," he said. "It's just so unfair. They shouldn't treat a criminal that way. Everyone deserves some respect."

He still questions what he did wrong and whether it's a sin to eat, he said.

Officers pushed and jabbed Fogderud in and out of the squad car, he said. The handcuffs were tight and uncomfortable, he said, but he was not seriously injured.

"There's nothing illegal about speaking out your window to someone. I realize-the only reason I can see-is maybe perverts do that, but I never thought about that," he said.

"I have pure motives and intentions, but there's still nothing illegal about that."

 

[Pergamum]

Hmmmm...interesting.

I don't blame the boys. "Hey come here" at night is not a good way to make friends.

But can cops really pull over and pat down people based on no evidence or was the boys' call enough evidence to check this guy out?

 

[turmeric]

Attempts at kidnapping are taken quite seriously in the States. I can see how his intentions were misunderstood. He should have just dropped it when the boys walked away the first time It doesn't look like an attack on Christianity so much as a misunderstanding - at least I hope the boys misunderstood him!

 

[Kevin]

Attempts at kidnapping are taken quite seriously in the States. I can see how his intentions were misunderstood. He should have just dropped it when the boys walked away the first time It doesn't look like an attack on Christianity so much as a misunderstanding - at least I hope the boys misunderstood him!

 

[Pergamum]

Yes, a great motivation but poor methodology.

 

[Quickened]

Yeah i understand about everything in that article. There were things that i learned when i was not walking with the Lord. I am sure after he was pulled over that he could have explained absolutely everything openly and cooperated with the police that they wouldn't have taken him in. The minute he started being uncooperative it made him suspicious.

He should have left those boys alone. I understand wanting to spread the gospel of Christ but doing so in an environment where open dialog is occurring is usually the best place. Hounding people is not.

Overall i dont think he was treated unfairly. Given his actions to the boys and his unwillingness to cooperate everything sounds by the book. Hopefully he learns something from this.

1 Don't force yourself on people.
2 In a situation with police explain everything clearly and cooperate 100% regardless of weather you think you are right or wrong. If they are in the wrong and go too far then you can deal with that at a later time (ie. lawsuit).

 

[Pergamum]

Thought police?


I'm glad the cops actually do jump on something this quick every once and awhile.


I'd like to thank these small town, quick-thinking cops myself.

 

[Pergamum]

Hmmm..

The guy was parked at night in a parking lot.
Trying to attract young boys.
Two guys in the truck..one yells "Hey come here!..."
One guy was going to DETOX (I am sure he was a pretty sight).
After the kids hid, the guy called out to them again.
Then they parked outside the restaurant doors.
Then he was uncooperative with the cops.
Then he says, "If you let me go, I'll forgive you.."

The pastor at least sounds like a nut job even if he had good motives.



Again, good work cops...I wish all had this vigilence to keep an eye out for weirdos.

 

[calgal]

I do not mean this to be rude but Joshua would you be comfortable with some random stranger yelling to your kid in that same manner? Even if they claimed affiliation with some church? I would be livid if it were my nephews or cousins accosted by a stranger. ALL THE GUY HAD TO DO WAS EXPLAIN! His reaction would make the cops even more suspicious and rightfully so! Incidentally, affiliation with a church is NO guarantee that the person is safe. There is a time and place and way to witness. His method was NOT appropriate (and would send up red flags IMNSHO).

 

[calgal]

I do not mean this to be rude but Joshua would you be comfortable with some random stranger yelling to your kid in that same manner? Even if they claimed affiliation with some church? I would be livid if it were my nephews or cousins accosted by a stranger. ALL THE GUY HAD TO DO WAS EXPLAIN! His reaction would make the cops even more suspicious and rightfully so! Incidentally, affiliation with a church is NO guarantee that the person is safe. There is a time and place and way to witness. His method was NOT appropriate (and would send up red flags IMNSHO).

First, Ma'am, I conceded a bit in one of my previous posts by saying:

...maybe I'm just too jumpy about Big Brotherism

As my kid being a girl, I wouldn't have her out by herself, etc. She would go inside the building and avoid/ignore the guy...or tell people there. I wouldn't encourage her to call 911, but me...particularly in light of the fact that the guy didn't make any threats. I never alluded to the fact that he was affiliated with a church. Such plays no part in my paranoia, and I'm certainly not foolish enough to think that ties to a church automatically make a person safe. Nor did I ever say what he did was appropriate. But the cops had no evidence or anything to stand upon in order to justify pulling the guy over, demanding he get out of his car, etc. etc.

I readily admit that he could/should have been smarter. He could have easily identified what he wanted to tell them. Maybe he didn't want to yell it. However, he didn't approach them and make any threats. Furthermore, I don't know these 13 yr old boys. For all I know they could have been like I was when I was 13. A punk. I just find it odd that we Americans are so willing to give up private freedoms in the name of supposed security. I am not saying that this guy wasn't going to do anything wrong. But we don't know. Nor do we know if these 13 yr olds were innocent little boys, away from mommy and daddy, only wanting to safely spend their evening outside their favorite restaurant skateboarding on the parking lot.

It's just my opinion that the boys could have taken other measures, and the police could have handled there end of it much better as well.

That being noted, I'm willing to concede that my sensitivity can be chalked up to my distrust of Big Brother.

I understand but want to give a couple more things to ponder. Kids are taught about "stranger danger" at an early age these days and are a lot more paranoid than we were as kiddos. Of course the statistics that state family/friends and clergy are more likely to molest a child than a pervert in a pickup would be are ignored....but back to the topic:The questions I would have are why did the pastor not leave but hung out by the exit (major red flag) and why did he not take care of the fellow being driven to detox first? Something in the story is just not adding up for me. Did the cops overreact? Probably but this pastor was not exactly being smart: his hanging out by the entrance waiting for the kids to come out bothers me even more than the initial "come here!" I would have called the cops if 2 scared kids told me a guy approached them and was waiting for them. I hate to say it but he is acting strangely and that is something I would rather the cops sorted out.

 

[etexas]

I do not mean this to be rude but Joshua would you be comfortable with some random stranger yelling to your kid in that same manner? Even if they claimed affiliation with some church? I would be livid if it were my nephews or cousins accosted by a stranger. ALL THE GUY HAD TO DO WAS EXPLAIN! His reaction would make the cops even more suspicious and rightfully so! Incidentally, affiliation with a church is NO guarantee that the person is safe. There is a time and place and way to witness. His method was NOT appropriate (and would send up red flags IMNSHO).

First, Ma'am, I conceded a bit in one of my previous posts by saying:

...maybe I'm just too jumpy about Big Brotherism

As my kid being a girl, I wouldn't have her out by herself, etc. She would go inside the building and avoid/ignore the guy...or tell people there. I wouldn't encourage her to call 911, but me...particularly in light of the fact that the guy didn't make any threats. I never alluded to the fact that he was affiliated with a church. Such plays no part in my paranoia, and I'm certainly not foolish enough to think that ties to a church automatically make a person safe. Nor did I ever say what he did was appropriate. But the cops had no evidence or anything to stand upon in order to justify pulling the guy over, demanding he get out of his car, etc. etc.

I readily admit that he could/should have been smarter. He could have easily identified what he wanted to tell them. Maybe he didn't want to yell it. However, he didn't approach them and make any threats. Furthermore, I don't know these 13 yr old boys. For all I know they could have been like I was when I was 13. A punk. I just find it odd that we Americans are so willing to give up private freedoms in the name of supposed security. I am not saying that this guy wasn't going to do anything wrong. But we don't know. Nor do we know if these 13 yr olds were innocent little boys, away from mommy and daddy, only wanting to safely spend their evening outside their favorite restaurant skateboarding on the parking lot.

It's just my opinion that the boys could have taken other measures, and the police could have handled there end of it much better as well.

That being noted, I'm willing to concede that my sensitivity can be chalked up to my distrust of Big Brother.

I take a middle course here....saying "Come here!" to to strange boys....not a good approach....on the other hand....like Josh....I have watched my Arron Russo....and am pretty leary of police "tactics".

 

[calgal]

I take a middle course here....saying "Come here!" to to strange boys....not a good approach....on the other hand....like Josh....I have watched my Arron Russo....and am pretty leary of police "tactics".

Who is Arron Russo? I do not always trust cops and agree there are some dirty tactics some cops use but the situation would feel wrong to a lot of folks.

 

[calgal]

NOTE: Josh has not condoned the weird man's actions.

Note on note: I did not think he did but did and do think that the cops acted based on what they thought or feared they came across.

 

[calgal]

NOTE: Josh has not condoned the weird man's actions.

Note on note: I did not think he did but did and do think that the cops acted based on what they thought or feared they came across.

Note on your note on my note lol: Did not mean to imply that you thought Josh condoned the weird man's actions.

Side Note to self: Read Robert's Rules of Order before congregational meetings.....

 

[etexas]

A summation of notes:No one condones weird dudes actions!

 

[Quickened]

Lets think like secular people for a minute. An old man calling out to young boys just screams paedo. I guarantee you that these kids thought along those lines. Kids are a bit more savvy then we give them credit for. Look at mainstream media... things like "how to catch a predator" and so many scandals in Catholic Churches involving old men and young boys.

Lets be honest here... it just doesnt look good at face value. How he could have never even considered it? If someone says "no" or avoids you its borderline stalkerish to continuously persist. I could really break down this whole report...

The frightened boys, however, told police they didn't feel comfortable and walked into the restaurant where they stayed for several minutes before leaving. Meanwhile Fogderud had pulled through the drive-through and parked outside the door, according to police reports.

The boys moved in to avoid him and then he parks outside the door. Was that the only exit? In my eyes here it seems he is blocking the only exit.

And also... this other guy was on the way to detox. Where are the priorities here?

Sometimes i am leary about how police treat individuals especially Christians. This is not one of those times. Basic common sense says to cooperate. His actions beginning to end are pretty much questionable at best.

Officers handcuffed Fogderud and took him to the police department where he refused to be fingerprinted. He told officers several times that, "if you let me go, I will forgive you."

You are being booked. What is the point with hassling the cops over fingerprints? Its standard procedure. That quote at the end makes him appear to be a complete nutjob.

Witnessing is one thing but this pretty much is in a league of its own.

"They didn't explain anything. They treated me with brutal force," he said. "It's just so unfair. They shouldn't treat a criminal that way. Everyone deserves some respect."

Brutal force? I dont remember reading about injuries sustained during this ordeal. Aside from the Martyr syndrome that has taken place after the fact. Everyone deserves respect. I agree with that. Usually you have to show respect to an officer first before you can go expecting anything. His unwillingness to cooperate pretty much threw that out the window.

Officers pushed and jabbed Fogderud in and out of the squad car, he said. The handcuffs were tight and uncomfortable, he said, but he was not seriously injured.

Welcome to getting arrested. Seriously i cant feel sympathy reading this. I have watched people give cops the run around time and again in the past. It always results in getting arrested and booked. I have got pulled over for speeding. I am always upfront.

"Yes officer i was doing 10 over. I knew i should be and i have no good reason that i was"

Basic upfront honesty goes along way. For the most part the officers i have talked to and met hate paperwork. They wont necessarily go out of their way to make someone's life miserable. Are there bad apples? Yes. Are they the majority? I would say not.

People that act like he acted will get treated like he was treated.