WSC Q.23 Three Offices/Two States but what about the preincarnate?

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KMK

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Q. 23. What offices doth Christ execute as our Redeemer?
A. Christ, as our Redeemer, executeth the offices of a prophet,[62] of a priest,[63] and of a king,[64] both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation.

The Reformed view seems to limit the humiliation to 'Christ under the law' and exaltation to 'Christ free from the law'. What about the work of Christ before the incarnation? Is it part of humiliation or exaltation. I lean towards exaltation because he most certainly was not under the law.
 
I think although our Lord refers to His exaltation as that glory He had with the Father before the World was, the states of humiliation and exaltation refer to Him as the God-Man.

As the God-Man there are only the two states.

Before His incarnation Christ enjoyed the glory He always had with the Father.

But He wasn't the highly (super) exalted God-Man because He had not become Man and carried out His task.

Now Christ enjoys the glory that He always had with the Father, both in His Deity and Humanity. But by becoming the Man and doing all He did, He has revealed that glory in a totally new and definitive way to Man, Angels and Demons forever.
 
I think although our Lord refers to His exaltation as that glory He had with the Father before the World was, the states of humiliation and exaltation refer to Him as the God-Man.

As the God-Man there are only the two states.

Before His incarnation Christ enjoyed the glory He always had with the Father.

But He wasn't the highly (super) exalted God-Man because He had not become Man and carried out His task.

Now Christ enjoys the glory that He always had with the Father, both in His Deity and Humanity. But by becoming the Man and doing all He did, He has revealed that glory in a totally new and definitive way to Man, Angels and Demons forever.

Yes, that is the context. But, what about the work of redemption done by the second person of the Godhead before the incarnation? (The spirit of revelation, the angel of God, the illumination of the elect, for example) How do we assign these to the office of the Redeemer? Or was in not technically the work of the Redeemer at all?
 
Ken,

The offices and estates or Christ refer to His work as the Mediator of the Covenant, as is made clearer by WLC 36 and following. For example, the Kingship of Christ is distinct as Mediator from His Kingship as the Second Person of the Trinity from all eternity.
 
The Son of God operated through His patriarchs, prophets, priests and kings, and theophanies, etc, as you say.

There was no humiliation for Him in this until the incarnation, and it would be wrong to think so.

God is our Redeemer and Saviour, and was the Redeemer and Saviour of His people in the Patriarchal and Mosaic Administrations. But this did not involve any state of humiliation for the Word, until He became Man.

Not that being a Man is humiliation in itself, because He is eternally glorified and exalted Man. But being not glorified and exalted Man, and living in this post-Fall World as the Mediator of God's Elect, bearing their sins and punishment, was the state of humiliation.

The Son of God wanted to become Man (Proverbs 8) and now is eternally the Theanthropos. So we shouldn't say that being a man is itself part of the humiliation.
 
Thanks to both Fred and Richard for your help. The work of mediation by the Son of God in His preincarnate state is distinct from the work of redemption by the Son of God in His incarnation. SC Q. 23 deals with the latter and not the former. Am I on the right track?
 
Berkhof:

There is a difference of opinion as to the number of the states of the Mediator. Some are of the opinion that, if we assume that the person of the Mediator is the subject of the states, strict logic requires that we speak of the three states of modes of existence: the pre-existent state of eternal divine being, the earthly state of temporal human existence, and the heavenly state of exaltation and glory. But since we can speak of the humiliation and exaltation of the person of Christ only in connection with Him as the God-man, it is best to speak of only those two states. Reformed theologians do find an anticipation of both the humiliation and the exaltaion of Christ in His pre-existent state: of His humiliation in that He freely took upon Himself in the pactum salutis to merit and administer our salvation; and of His exaltation in the glory which He as our prospective Mediator enjoyed before the incarnation, cf. John 17:5. Systematic Theology, pg. 332

So the work of mediation by the Son of God in His pre-incarnate state was properly the work of the Mediator, but the work of the Redeemer did not begin until the virgin birth.
 
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So the work of mediation by the Son of God in His pre-incarnate state was properly the work of the Mediator, but the work of the Redeemer did not begin until the virgin birth.

You can't always put everything into hermetically sealed boxes. There is sometimes an overlapping in theology. The Triune God was Saviour and Redeemer of God's true people before the incarnation, based on the sacrifice that was to come, and the Son of God, was in a sense, a different sense, mediator, through His prophets, prophetic Word, revelations and miracles, angels, priests, kings, etc, before He started to bear the sin and guilt of many by becoming the Man, and mediator proper.

His life and death were so sure, in one sense before God, that they were effective before they had taken place. Thus those under the Patriarchal and Mosaic Admins were admitted straight into Heaven if they had exercised faith before Jesus' sacrifice. The power of the Cross was working backwards through time aswell as reaching forwards.
 
Ken,

The issue is not an issue of time (pre or post-incarnation) but of role. Christ is the eternal Second Person of the Trinity. He is also the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. His offices and estates have reference to the latter, not the former (strictly speaking). So as God (qua God) Christ speaks through His prophets and is King of all creation. But as the Mediator of the Covenant, He also is the great prophet (cf. Deut. 15, 18).
 
Ken,

The issue is not an issue of time (pre or post-incarnation) but of role. Christ is the eternal Second Person of the Trinity. He is also the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. His offices and estates have reference to the latter, not the former (strictly speaking). So as God (qua God) Christ speaks through His prophets and is King of all creation. But as the Mediator of the Covenant, He also is the great prophet (cf. Deut. 15, 18).

Thank you. So the spirit of revelation whereby David says "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." is not technically the work of the 'Redeemer', but it is the work of the Son of God. Or would it be some kind of 'anticipation' of the work of the Redeemer, as Berkhof says?
 
Ken,

The issue is not an issue of time (pre or post-incarnation) but of role. Christ is the eternal Second Person of the Trinity. He is also the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. His offices and estates have reference to the latter, not the former (strictly speaking). So as God (qua God) Christ speaks through His prophets and is King of all creation. But as the Mediator of the Covenant, He also is the great prophet (cf. Deut. 15, 18).

Thank you. So the spirit of revelation whereby David says "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." is not technically the work of the 'Redeemer', but it is the work of the Son of God. Or would it be some kind of 'anticipation' of the work of the Redeemer, as Berkhof says?
It is anticipatory. I also think it relates the work of the Mediator in His role as King.
 
Ken,

The issue is not an issue of time (pre or post-incarnation) but of role. Christ is the eternal Second Person of the Trinity. He is also the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. His offices and estates have reference to the latter, not the former (strictly speaking). So as God (qua God) Christ speaks through His prophets and is King of all creation. But as the Mediator of the Covenant, He also is the great prophet (cf. Deut. 15, 18).

Thank you. So the spirit of revelation whereby David says "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." is not technically the work of the 'Redeemer', but it is the work of the Son of God. Or would it be some kind of 'anticipation' of the work of the Redeemer, as Berkhof says?
It is anticipatory. I also think it relates the work of the Mediator in His role as King.

Do you mean the spirit of revelation to David in general belongs to the kingly office, or the subject of Ps 110 refers to the kingly office? I would agree with the latter, but wouldn't the former be anticipatory of the prophetical office?
 
Ken,

The issue is not an issue of time (pre or post-incarnation) but of role. Christ is the eternal Second Person of the Trinity. He is also the Mediator of the Covenant of Grace. His offices and estates have reference to the latter, not the former (strictly speaking). So as God (qua God) Christ speaks through His prophets and is King of all creation. But as the Mediator of the Covenant, He also is the great prophet (cf. Deut. 15, 18).

Thank you. So the spirit of revelation whereby David says "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." is not technically the work of the 'Redeemer', but it is the work of the Son of God. Or would it be some kind of 'anticipation' of the work of the Redeemer, as Berkhof says?
It is anticipatory. I also think it relates the work of the Mediator in His role as King.

Do you mean the spirit of revelation to David in general belongs to the kingly office, or the subject of Ps 110 refers to the kingly office? I would agree with the latter, but wouldn't the former be anticipatory of the prophetical office?
You are correct. The subject of Psalm 110 refers to the Kingly office.
 
Shedd has an interesting perspective.

Because the office of mediator is temporary. It begins to be exerised in time, and a time will come when it will cease to be exercised. This is taught in 1 Cor 15:24,28...As there was once a time when there was no mediatorial work of salvation going on, so there will be a time when there will be none. The Logos was not actually and historically a mediator until he assumed human nature. It is true that in the Old Testament church the second trinitarian person discharged the office of a mediator by anticipation, and men were saved by his mediatorial work; but it was in view of his future advent, and future performance of that work. Types and symbols stood in the place of the incarnate Word. Not however until the miraculous conception, was there actually a God-man; and not until then, was there an actual historical mediator. And although there will now always be a God-man, yet there will not always be a mediatorial work hoing on. The God-man will one day cease to redeem sinners. (Heb 10:26; Heb 3:13,15,18; 4:1,7) Dogmatic Theology; Vol II, pages 357,8
 
God the Triune Father, Son and Holy Spirit has always been the Saviour/Redeemer from their sins of those who put their trust in Him since the Fall.

In the New Covenant period we have a clearer idea of how He is and can be Saviour/Redeemer, and in Christ, what God needed to do to save all His people has now been accomplished. It was waiting to be accomplished before the Cross.
 
Hodge:

Thus from the beginning, both in his state of humiliation and of exaltation, both before and after his advent in the flesh, does Christ execute the office of a prophet in revealing to us by His Word and Spirit the will of God for our salvation. Systematic Theology, Vol 2; pg. 463

This statement makes sense to me, but I am sure it is because I am missing some nuance in the words of the Divines.

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Could it be that intention of the Divines was to bring attention to the fact that Christ executed His office in both states but not to limit His execution to those two states only? Was there some form of heresy this Q was specifically addressing?
 
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The two natures of Christ is a difficult concept.

It has been helpful for me to understand that the human nature of our Lord is subsumed in His Divine nature.

Christ was never created, but eternally proceeds from the Father, so He is, was and forever shall be.

He condescended to take on limitations in human form, but that was temporary, and that in no way limited Him in his eternally existing Divine nature.

When we are speaking of eternity, the concept of time becomes tricky. We position things more logically than actually.

So, Christ is, was and forever shall be Redeemer. His role and the people ordained for redemption was settled in Heaven before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4). So, in that sense Christ was Redeemer before His incarnation.

I realize you were looking at the Shorter Catechism. This may be beyond your question, but there is a section in the Larger Catechism that draws this out in more detail:

Westminster Larger Catchesim

Question 36: Who is the Mediator of the covenant of grace?

Answer: The only Mediator of the covenant of grace is the Lord Jesus Christ, who, being the eternal Son of God, of one substance and equal with the Father, in the fulness of time became man, and so was and continues to be God and man, in two entire distinct natures, and one person, forever.

Question 37: How did Christ, being the Son of God, become man?

Answer: Christ the Son of God became man, by taking to himself a true body, and a reasonable soul, being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance, and born of her, yet without sin.

Question 38: Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?

Answer: It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death; give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience, and intercession; and to satisfy God's justice, procure his favor, purchase a peculiar people, give his Spirit to them, conquer all their enemies, and bring them to everlasting salvation.

Question 39: Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?

Answer: It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature, perform obedience to the law, suffer and make intercession for us in our nature, have a fellow feeling of our infirmities; that we might receive the adoption of sons, and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.

Question 40: Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God and man in one person ?

Answer: It was requisite that the Mediator, who was to reconcile God and man, should himself be both God and man, and this in one person, that the proper works of each nature might be accepted of God for us, and relied on by us, as the works of the whole person.
 
I have heard a Sermon on Jesus Christ, the same, yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8), that taught that the pre-incarnate Christ was prophet, priest and king unto His people.

He was by His Spirit and through His Word, ceremonies, institutions (prophecy, kingship, the priesthood) the theophanies, etc.

He didn't enter His state of humiliation until the incarnation.

I'm really not quite sure what you're getting at, Ken, but this statement by Hodge may be badly phrased, if it gives the impression that the states of Christ in humiliation and exaltation existed in some sense from the beginning.

Hodge: Thus from the beginning, both in his state of humiliation and of exaltation, both before and after his advent in the flesh, does Christ execute the office of a prophet in revealing to us by His Word and Spirit the will of God for our salvation. Systematic Theology, Vol 2; pg. 463

"The State of Humiliation" is a theological term for Christ's position while He was incarnate on Earth.

"The State of Exaltation" is a theological term for Christ's present position since His ascension, while He is now incarnate in Heaven.

To avoid confusion they shouldn't be referred to Christ before He became a Man.
 
I am wrestling with the words, "both in his estate of humiliation and exaltation." The Divines did not say, "only in his estate of humiliation and exaltation." I had originally thought their intention was to limit the execution of His office to only those two states but am now thinking their intention was to make sure that neither state was excluded.
 
Ken, the point is simply the emphasis that the actual accomplishment of his mediatorial office requires the person of the mediator to perform the work proper to both states. Yes, the offices were in different senses performed before his incarnation, but chiefly in and subsequent to his incarnation: he did teach his church mediately through the prophets before his incarnation; but chiefly, he fulfilled that office by appearing to personally and immediately teach his church, and to set forth a final testament so to speak through his own teaching and through his apostles, to at last give to us the "faith once delivered." He did perform his office of priest before his incarnation, engaging to be surety for his people; but chiefly in his incarnation, taking our flesh upon himself, suffering and fulfilling all righteousness, and presenting that sacrifice when glorified in Heaven to intercede for us. He did perform his office of King before his incarnation, governing his people, defending them, and ruling with his law by way of earthly kings; but chiefly after his incarnation, and especially in his state of glorification, does he discharge his kingly office, being royally invested therewith by his Father after he performed his covenanted duties.
 
Ken, the point is simply the emphasis that the actual accomplishment of his mediatorial office requires the person of the mediator to perform the work proper to both states. Yes, the offices were in different senses performed before his incarnation, but chiefly in and subsequent to his incarnation: he did teach his church mediately through the prophets before his incarnation; but chiefly, he fulfilled that office by appearing to personally and immediately teach his church, and to set forth a final testament so to speak through his own teaching and through his apostles, to at last give to us the "faith once delivered." He did perform his office of priest before his incarnation, engaging to be surety for his people; but chiefly in his incarnation, taking our flesh upon himself, suffering and fulfilling all righteousness, and presenting that sacrifice when glorified in Heaven to intercede for us. He did perform his office of King before his incarnation, governing his people, defending them, and ruling with his law by way of earthly kings; but chiefly after his incarnation, and especially in his state of glorification, does he discharge his kingly office, being royally invested therewith by his Father after he performed his covenanted duties.

So the answer could have been written thus: "Christ, as our Redeemer, executeth the offices of a prophet, of a priest, and of a king, [chiefly in] both his estate of humiliation and exaltation."
 
Perhaps an (inadequate) picture could be of use (and I will be the first to admit that the parallels here are far from perfect). Let's say you are the son of a king, and you are to be actually admitted to the Kingly office on your 21st birthday. Until you are actually made King, you do not truly execute the office, for to make and enforce the laws you must be properly fitted with what is necessary. In another sense, however, you were "made King" from the moment you were born, being appointed to fulfill and execute that office in the fullness of time. Especially as your 21st birthday approaches, by virtue of your appointment, many things are done by you and for you in anticipation of the coming assumption of the office; perhaps governors or stewards rule for you until the appointed time, and do so based upon knowing your mind and what sort of Kingdom you will enact; as you begin to formulate your laws and the other aspects of your Kingdom, the counselors and wise men will begin to learn and teach them to the people, etc.

Now, for the very imperfect comparison: the person of the Mediator is Christ, the God-man; in God's plan and counsel, it is necessary for the mediator to be both God and man, and without being so constituted, he cannot be or perform the duties of Mediator. For Christ to actually and fully discharge his duty, to be fully invested with the office of Mediator, he had to become incarnate; but this does not mean that the benefits of his mediation did not redound unto his people before he fulfilled his office, nor that he was not still their mediator: Christ has always been mediator, both incarnandus and incarnatus (both as he was to be incarnate, and having been incarnate) -- and so his people were kept under stewards and guardians until he came to perform his duty, being taught by his Spirit through the prophets until he should come to teach them himself; being ruled by typical Kings, until he should be formally installed as King; having typical priests and a sacerdotal system, until he should perform the true oblation which required both natures. The main point is that the office of Mediator involves one who is medius, or between God and man; without that, there is no mediation. The actions performed by the Son incarnandus were with reference to his coming incarnation and the work which he was to perform in his two states. We say that he was our mediator in the sense that he was eternally appointed to bear our sins, and in this sense believers were never under law-wrath; but in a more real sense, he became our mediator when he actually assumed our flesh, took the performance of satisfaction upon himself, and executed and discharged his office.
 
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Perhaps an (inadequate) picture could be of use (and I will be the first to admit that the parallels here are far from perfect). Let's say you are the son of a king, and you are to be actually admitted to the Kingly office on your 21st birthday. Until you are actually made King, you do not truly execute the office, for to make and enforce the laws you must be properly fitted with what is necessary. In another sense, however, you were "made King" from the moment you were born, being appointed to fulfill and execute that office in the fullness of time. Especially as your 21st birthday approaches, by virtue of your appointment, many things are done by you and for you in anticipation of the coming assumption of the office; perhaps governors or stewards rule for you until the appointed time, and do so based upon knowing your mind and what sort of Kingdom you will enact; as you begin to formulate your laws and the other aspects of your Kingdom, the counselors and wise men will begin to learn and teach them to the people, etc.

Now, for the very imperfect comparison: the person of the Mediator is Christ, the God-man; in God's plan and counsel, it is necessary for the mediator to be both God and man, and without being so constituted, he cannot be or perform the duties of Mediator. For Christ to actually and fully discharge his duty, to be fully invested with the office of Mediator, he had to become incarnate; but this does not mean that the benefits of his mediation did not redound unto his people before he fulfilled his office, nor that he was not still their mediator: Christ has always been mediator, both incarnandus and incarnatus (both as he was to be incarnate, and having been incarnate) -- and so his people were kept under stewards and guardians until he came to perform his duty, being taught by his Spirit through the prophets until he should come to teach them himself; being ruled by typical Kings, until he should be formally installed as King; having typical priests and a sacerdotal system, until he should perform the true oblation which required both natures. The main point is that the office of Mediator involves one who is medius, or between God and man; without that, there is no mediation. The actions performed by the Son incarnandus were with reference to his coming incarnation and the work which he was to perform in his two states. We say that he was our mediator in the sense that he was eternally appointed to bear our sins, and in this sense believers were never under law-wrath; but in a more real sense, he became our mediator when he actually assumed our flesh, took the performance of satisfaction upon himself, and executed and discharged his office.

Excellent stuff, Ruben. I will quickly steal your parable before you have time to copyright it.

As to this statement: "The actions performed by the Son incarnandus were with reference to his coming incarnation and the work which he was to perform in his two states." I would agree except in regards to the prophetic office. Wasn't the Son of God's 'incarnandus' execution of the prophetic office more than just in 'reference' to His coming? Wasn't it actual execution and not simply alluding to His incarnate execution? It seems to me that His prophetic work in his incarnandus state was more than just a 'foreshadow' or a 'type'. OT saints were actually worked upon by the Prophet. The Son of God was really and truly 'revealing to them by his word and Spirit, the will of God for their salvation.'

I know it sounds like I am splitting hairs but I just want to thoroughly understand the issue since theologians seem to contradict one another.

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Now that I think about it, though, the Son of God was really and truly working as Mediator to the OT saints in every way. And since mediation requires all three offices, then He must have really and truly been executing the offices in His incarnandus state. He was really and truly applying atonement. He was really and truly making them willing in the day of His power. All this based upon His becoming the God-man at a point in time. Interesting.
 
Much as I appreciate the compliment, Ken, it was of course Paul who provided the brilliant post, not yours truly.
 
Much as I appreciate the compliment, Ken, it was of course Paul who provided the brilliant post, not yours truly.

Of course. Sorry for the slight, Paul. I kind of lump you and Ruben together seeing as Bat-balm and Spider-potato are my favorites.
 
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