WTS has some splainin to do

[A.Joseph]

None of this makes much sense. I guess we don’t have to know everything. But is this a bad sign? Dr. Tipton is the kinda guy you’d want to hold onto at all costs. But it appears that just the opposite has occurred. Not sure why this couldn’t have been resolved and this type of outcome avoided.

https://reformedforum.org/dr-lane-g-tipton-appointed-as-fellow-of-biblical-and-systematic-theology/

“I am grateful for a second announcement from the Seminary yesterday that eliminates much of the darker innuendo of the previous one by posing and answering three “FAQs” (Frequently Asked Questions). The Seminary’s answer to the first of those questions appears to deny any connection between the decision to end my employment and my efforts to express my concerns regarding the theological formulations of Dr. Scott Oliphint with respect to the doctrine of God. However, I see it very differently. There were no complaints about my conduct during my fifteen year tenure at Westminster, at least none of which I was ever made aware, until after charges were brought against Dr. Oliphint in the courts of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and my name appeared as a potential expert witness regarding the theological issues that were raised by those charges. The first complaints about me to the Board of Trustees, as least insofar as I was told, were raised by Seminary leadership in May, after the charges against Dr. Oliphint had been dismissed. According to what I was told, those complaints began as pertaining to purported administrative inefficiencies on my part, but soon expanded to include dissatisfaction over how I responded to a series of Seminary inquiries regarding my connection to the ecclesiastical charges against Dr. Oliphint. The cumulative effect of these complaints led to the ending of my time at Westminster.”

 

[TylerRay]

Trueman's professorship ended after he opposed Oliphint's views, too. So did Jeff Waddington's position.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Moderator Hat On

Let me just head this off as a Moderator. Please understand that we shouldn't speculate. We should be careful to not imply motive based upon speculation or develope theories of suspicion. Remember the rules here as it pertains to the 9th Commandment. https://www.puritanboard.com/help/9th-commandment/

 

[Pergamum]

Let me just head this off as a Moderator. Please understand that we shouldn't speculate. We should be careful to not imply motive based upon speculation or develope theories of suspicion. Remember the rules here as it pertains to the 9th Commandment. https://www.puritanboard.com/help/9th-commandment/

Good move.

 

[jwright82]

Moderator Hat On

Let me just head this off as a Moderator. Please understand that we shouldn't speculate. We should be careful to not imply motive based upon speculation or develope theories of suspicion. Remember the rules here as it pertains to the 9th Commandment. https://www.puritanboard.com/help/9th-commandment/

Since we don't know what went on behind closed doors, we are in no place to judge. That said on the surface it seems a little odd. Perhaps one day someone will right a book analysing what went down, like that book on the Shepherd affair.

 

[Edward]

The Moscow Rules.

 

[Grant]

Trueman's professorship ended after he opposed Oliphint's views, too. So did Jeff Waddington's position.

This just seems very puzzling. If the case if over why is more info not released for the sake of vindicating all parties. These men seem like they are gifted professors and are now being released. Hopefully more details can be brought to light. The hush hush only makes it all seem more puzzling. I was under the impression that bringing charges was normal Presbyterianism (though still serious) and now we have men being fired. This is going from "puzzling and still waiting for information" to becoming "slightly alarming".

 

[A.Joseph]

Im sorry to say this, but it sounds kind of punitive and petty. That’s as far as I will speculate.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

This just seems very puzzling. If the case if over why is more info not released for the sake of vindicating all parties.

It isn't always good to release information as fast as we want to know the facts. That is true in a lot of situations. As much as it is public it also has some privacy issues that need to be considered in all cases. This group of men are all men under authority. We should just be patient and allow God and his means to work it all out.

 

[A.Joseph]

It’s not clear how Dr. Tipton became a witness. He spoke to it, but I missed his explanation, and he was hesitant to say too much at the time. (I didn’t want to press him any further and don’t intend to). But it seems like they considered him acting as an expert witness a big no-no, at least in this case.

This just seems very puzzling. If the case if over why is more info not released for the sake of vindicating all parties. These men seem like they are gifted professors and are now being released. Hopefully more details can be brought to light. The hush hush only makes it all seem more puzzling. I was under the impression that bringing charges was normal Presbyterianism and now we have men being fired. This is going from puzzling and still waiting for information to becoming slightly alarming.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Im sorry to say this, but it sounds kind of punitive and petty.

It sounds punitive because of what Professor / Pastor Lane posted. It is speculative as far as I read it. We should tread lightly. Please. There is no need to speculate or imply so soon. I will close this thread if the speculation keeps up. Give it time. Be Patient. It might take years but there is no need for us to be overly judgmental about things we can only speculate about.

BTW, Lane does not appear to be in a bad spot. He has a new position and is a Pastor as I understand it.

 

[jwright82]

It’s not clear how Dr. Tipton became a witness. He spoke to it, but I missed his explanation, and he was hesitant to say too much at the time. (I didn’t want to press him any further any time I spoke with him afterwards and don’t intend to). But it seems like they considered that a big no-no.

Than we ought to honor their privacy. We have all been involved in situations where we wanted our privacy to be respected and all had people trying to pry into. Also there have been times where knew things about others but refrained from saying it no matter what it was. In time we will learn more, maybe maybe not.

 

[yeutter]

Than we ought to honor their privacy. We have all been involved in situations where we wanted our privacy to be respected and all had people trying to pry into. Also there have been times where knew things about others but refrained from saying it no matter what it was. In time we will learn more, maybe maybe not.

Agreed, we need to honor their privacy, but Prof. Tipton does not seem to be concerned about that from the statement he issued.
Westminster Seminary needs to act quickly to reassure the broader Reformed community. One of Westminster Seminary's strongest supporters within the continuing Anglican movement has denounced the decision to release Prof. Tipton.

 

[alexandermsmith]

Something seems to be rotten at WTS.

Glad Tipton has found a place where he can feel at home. But anyone else concerned with the expanding nature of Reformed Forum? What exactly is it now? It started as a podcast but now seems to have morphed into some sort of ministry. I have found them a very valuable resource over the years, producing many shows which reward repeated listens, but this recent development in its "mission" is concerning.

 

[Taylor]

...this recent development in its "mission" is concerning.

What's wrong with "support[ing] the Church in her charge of presenting every person mature in Christ"?

 

[alexandermsmith]

What's wrong with "support[ing] the Church in her charge of presenting every person mature in Christ"?

Yeah but what does that mean in practice? It's one thing for ministers to produce a podcast on the side (amazing they can find the time, it did start off when they were in seminary after all). But now Reformed Forum has formal ministry posts. Are they a church? Are they a seminary? What are they exactly?

 

[Taylor]

Yeah but what does that mean in practice? It's one thing for ministers to produce a podcast on the side (amazing they can find the time, it did start off when they were in seminary after all). But now Reformed Forum has formal ministry posts. Are they a church? Are they a seminary? What are they exactly?

It is a ministry. Pastor Camden, whom I know personally, was called by his session at Hope OPC in Grayslake, IL, to be an Evangelist in the OPC, with Reformed Forum being the medium.

 

[alexandermsmith]

It is a ministry. Pastor Camden, whom I know personally, was called by his session at Hope OPC in Grayslake, IL, to be an Evangelist in the OPC, with Reformed Forum being the medium.

So what is Lane Tipton's position? Has he been called by Hope OPC to his new position? What is a podcast ministry? These are just questions I think we should ask ourselves. It's nothing personal against the men (whom you know personally).

 

[Taylor]

So what is Lane Tipton's position? Has he been called by Hope OPC to his new position?

Those are good questions. I am not sure, to be honest. I can talk to them about it. I am sure it is being handled well, as Reformed Forum, as far as I can guess, is under the direct oversight of the session of Hope OPC.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

This probably comes with little surprise. Jeff had been suspended for the trial duration when he joined others in making the charges for which Dr. Tipton was to be a witness.
"It is with much sadness that I note that earlier this week I submitted my resignation as adjunct professor of systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary. The administration has questionably handled recent faculty problems and has indicated it wants to travel down a path I cannot in good conscience follow with it. I shall miss the teaching opportunities and fellowship with students. I pray that our great and glorious Triune God will turn the school and its administration around and put it back on the path laid out by J. Gresham Machen in 1929." Jeffrey C. Waddington, public post to Facebook.

 

[A.Joseph]

It is a ministry. Pastor Camden, whom I know personally, was called by his session at Hope OPC in Grayslake, IL, to be an Evangelist in the OPC, with Reformed Forum being the medium.

I think it’s a good platform, and a sound alternative, to this unfortunate turn of events. It may be time for Pastor Tipton’s profile to increase a bit. We all need to get behind it. It feels like an ever growing grass roots movement, or something like that.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

There are some good questions here. I wonder what the goal of Reformed Forum might be. I have been out of the loop for a few years and didn't even know about the recent activities of the past few years concerning Oliphant. I would like to know what the specific charges were that were leveled against him. I wonder why they were dismissed. I am sure the OPC has a better picture of this.

I like Reformed Forum. I irritated poor Jim Cassidy over the Meredith Kline issue for a few years. It was a complicated issue. I don't think I lowered myself to imply ill suspicious motive when I confronted people based upon doctrinal issues. I tried to keep it based upon doctrine. I sensed a justification when the OPC Study came out. It took me years to get to that point. I started asking questions in 2011. It took years of study and going back and forth with guys on both sides of the issue. I was encouraged to sit on my hands and just shut up sometimes by good Leaders and Eldership. Be Patient. Trust God's means of authority. Affections will run high. After all these are people we love and respect. Let's give them our respect. I mean that for both sides of the issue. They deserve our love and respect. They labor hard for us and on our behalf before God. Let's not impune them with ill suspicious motive.

It just might be a good providence also. Maybe God is forming a new work. I am trying to see the positive in this without downgrading to implying ill suspicion or ill motive. Let's be patient. I like Lane Tipton a lot. I think the world of Jeffrey Waddington. I love Westminster Philadelphia. We just don't know the full story and we need to be patient.

 

[Grant]

I think the below have been facts:

1. Formal charges were brought regarding teaching in one of Oliphint's books.
2. It seems Oliphint has "corrected" his view as he is re-writing some of the book for re-release.
3. The evidence for the charge seems to have been dismissed because of the age of the book (over 2 years old).
4. The destruction of the 1st edition of his book would seem to say that the writing did in fact contain teaching contrary to the Westminster Standards.
5. @PuritanCovenanter keeps spelling the professor's name "Oliphant", which is making me think of LOTR.

If anything above be false or speculative, please help me correct it.

I can see why charges were dismissed if Oliphint corrected his view and is now changing his book. That seems to be a favorable solution to the divisive, yet sometimes needed, process of carrying out formal charges IF the charged is relenting anyways. The odd part is that now at least 2 men, who were in some way involved in the charge, have been fired in a "politically correct" manner.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Was this over impassibility. Sorry I got the spelling incorrect, Oliphint. BTW, I liked LOTR. I remember discussions on that a long time ago. It really wasn't a small matter if that was the issue. I basically bowed out of life and lost touch of what was going on for about 3 years due to health issues.

 

[Grant]

Was this over impassibility. Sorry I got the spelling incorrect, Oliphint. BTW, I liked LOTR. I remember discussions on that a long time ago. It really wasn't a small matter if that was the issue. I basically bowed out of life and lost touch of what was going on for about 3 years due to health issues.

I believe so. I love (oops this is PB)...I mean like LOTR as well

 

[A.Joseph]

Trueman's professorship ended after he opposed Oliphint's views, too. So did Jeff Waddington's position.

Is there a practical distinction between Truemans response and Waddingtons? I’ve watched and listened to Waddington at RF and personally I think he’s great; he seems to have lots of passion, zeal and biblical knowledge. But could it be perceived that he was out of line being the one to bring about the charge against Dr. O., based upon the vast contrast in years/position/title/status (seems almost like a David taking on a Goliath). Just because he acted appropriately doesn’t mean some would not view it in poor taste, possibly/unfortunately.

 

[jwright82]

This probably comes with little surprise. Jeff had been suspended for the trial duration when he joined others in making the charges for which Dr. Tipton was to be a witness.
"It is with much sadness that I note that earlier this week I submitted my resignation as adjunct professor of systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary. The administration has questionably handled recent faculty problems and has indicated it wants to travel down a path I cannot in good conscience follow with it. I shall miss the teaching opportunities and fellowship with students. I pray that our great and glorious Triune God will turn the school and its administration around and put it back on the path laid out by J. Gresham Machen in 1929." Jeffrey C. Waddington, public post to Facebook.

I have to ask though, the official statement by Dr. Tipton was that something like "my actions in the OPC hearing were viewed by some in the seminary BOD as violating the code of conduct of proffessers". That's a summery at best but, so I apologise, Jeff was suspended for perhaps similar reasons. Is this a conflict of interest in having faculty members in the same denomination and school so that business of one bleeds over into the business of another?

 

[TylerRay]

Is there a practical distinction between Truemans response and Waddingtons? I’ve watched and listened to Waddington at RF and personally I think he’s great; he seems to have lots of passion, zeal and biblical knowledge. But could it be perceived that he was out of line being the one to bring about the charge against Dr. O., based upon the vast contrast in years/position/title/status (seems almost like a David taking on a Goliath). Just because he acted appropriately doesn’t mean some would not view it as poor taste, unfortunately.

Waddington has a PhD in systematic theology. I think he's competent to spot heresy. It was bold, no doubt, but I don't think there was any importunity in his action, especially since he was joining his voice with the voices of men of greater experience.

 

[A.Joseph]

Waddington has a PhD in systematic theology. I think he's competent to spot heresy. It was bold, no doubt, but I don't think there was any importunity in his action, especially since he was joining his voice with the voices of men of greater experience.

Bold, for sure. Others may have weighed the risk and counted the cost. I’m not sure if there are pleas behind the scenes that were ignored and if the accused feels a bit of public humiliation. I don’t think it has to be this way if Dr.O. could have provided further clarification. Personally I reserve the right to lovingly challenge and the right to humbly reconsider our positions without pride getting in the way. But life and the natural human condition often does not work that way. I’m the first to admit.

 

[ZackF]

The whole episode was and is sad.

I've profited at some level from every name mentioned in this thread. Be that as it is, I don't see why that can't continue. It is that simple to me. I'm not left with need to find a side to take or feel I need to get more information in order to take one. We can be grateful that we were not in a position of having had to adjudicate anything. Whatever possible wrong doing that came to pass, Paul and Barnabas remain my examples in cases like this. Sometimes a parting of the ways is the best handling of a given situation that God may be glorified.