You Cannot See God And Live?

[thistle93]

I am trying to work a few things out from Scripture.

(Exodus 33:20) – “But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live !"

But yet it says in the OT that the Lord appeared to Abraham. From my understand while clearly all 3 persons of the Godhead are God, the word God in Scripture refers to "the Father". So does this mean that Abraham saw the pre-incarnate Son?

Now the question is how could people during incarnation see Jesus if He was God or was this not the same because of His human form?

I know the Father does not have a human form but does have a form of glory.
(1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
Is this prohibition for the living or does this apply to Heaven as well?

For His Glory- Matthew

 

[Grillsy]

What do you mean by "the word God in the Scripture means the Father"?

 

[thistle93]

Hi! I actually meant "refers" to the Father. Thanks for helping me to clarify.

examples: James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion:Greetings.
(God here is referring to the Father. Though this does not mean that Jesus is not also God.)

John 6:46 explains that it was "the Father" that exodus meant by not seeing God.

 

[py3ak]

If you look up "face" in the OT, you'll see that applied to God it is a metaphor that can express several things. In Exodus 33:20 I would take it to refer to essence or unmediated presence. In a text like Genesis 32:30 I would take to mean, "God revealed", God manifesting Himself.

So you'll find that there are references to seeing God, but that John can still say, 'No man hath seen God at any time.' We have not seen God as He is in Himself; but He has made Himself known, in a way accommodated to our capacity. And that is true of the Son as well as of the Father; but it is also true that the one who has seen the Son has seen the Father also. That leads me to think that distinguishing the classes of statements in terms of archetypal/ectypal theology is better than distinguishing them in terms of the Persons of the Trinity.

That said, Calvin does have a nice quote showing that the Son was always the Revealer:
Institutes of the Christian Religion, IV.8.5

First, if it is true, as Christ says, “Neither knoweth any man the Father save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him” (Matthew 11:27), then those who wish to attain to the knowledge of God behoved always to be directed by that eternal wisdom For how could they have comprehended the mysteries of God in their mind, or declared them to others, unless by the teaching of him, to whom alone the secrets of the Father are known? The only way, therefore, by which in ancient times holy men knew God, was by beholding him in the Son as in a mirror. When I say this, I mean that God never manifested himself to men by any other means than by his Son, that is, his own only wisdom, light, and truth. From this fountain Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others, drew all the heavenly doctrine which they possessed. From the same fountain all the prophets also drew all the heavenly oracles which they published.

What do you mean by "form of glory"? Since God is a spirit, categories of shape and extension really have no application to Him.

 

[Peairtach]

The expression "Son of God" as used with respect to the Second Person of the Triunity, fully expresses the fact that the Second Person of the Triunity is fully God, because a son shares the same nature as his father, and if the Second Person (Son) shares the same nature as the First Person, He is as much God as God (the Father).

E.g.The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:33)................Christ said, Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:36)

The Jews were correct in this context to infer from the expression "Son of God" not that Jesus was claiming to be inferior or essentially different from God, or a lesser god, but that He was claiming to be of the same nature as God, and therefore also God.

Which also raises the Q of how much the Jews knew about the Holy Trinity before the advent of post-Christian Judaism which changed things in response to Christianity.

They seemed to understand that the expression "Son of God" meant God in this context, and yet the expression "Son of God" is little hinted at as a title for a Divine Person in the Old Testament.

 

[thistle93]

What I meant by "form of glory" is in reference to those passages in Scripture that refer to the "glory of the Lord" being present.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

So we will only see Jesus in Heaven, since the Father & Spirit are purely spirit?

---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

After the second coming and final judgment and the creation of the new heavens and the new earth, could not Jesus return to His original state before the Fall, to be just Spirit? Or does Scripture demand that He stay eternally divine/human?

 

[py3ak]

Christ's human body can be seen literally; the Father can only be seen metaphorically - God dwells in light inaccessible, which no man can see.