Your thoughts on the state of the church today

[Apologia Christou]

Hello brothers and sisters,

What do you think of the church, as it is today, all over the world? Are you satisfied? What do you wish, and why? Are there any problems, which are they? What are the solutions? Are there any obvious errors, any wisdom to take from the past? Did we ever have such a time as it is now, and what are the chief obstacles to revivals? Do you think God likes what he sees, in his church, and in the world? What do we have to change, where do we most obviously and strongly have to repent? Are we blind to some obvious sins? Why is that, and what are they?

Basically, pour your heart out, tell me what you think, where are we now, and where are we heading? Are you at ease in Zion?

I don’t like what I see. Church seems weak and miserable beyond measure. Reformation light seems vanished, and all heat gone. What impact does the church have in the world and on the world? I see the rainbow flags here everywhere in Germany, outside and in churches. Men think they are women, women men, and they get their blessing from the church aswell. How did we get here? Surely this didn’t come from nowhere. Atheism and relativism abounds, witchcraft and the occult arises, people only think money and success and openly declaring their filthy lusts. The school systems are penetrated with all kinds of stuff openly hostile and contradictory to biblical truth. Sometimes I wonder, the country where the Reformation began, and soon afterwards the breeding place of so many scholars who always find new innovative ways of attacking the Bible from all angles. Satan certainly did a great job, here.

Where is the churches impact? It is, basically, zero, and it gets worse and worse. How so? How is this possible? Certainly there has to be a reason for it. Been listening to some lectures from Lloyd-Jones regarding Revival, his take on that, and what he thinks. He says we need strong preaching, we need to purify our doctrine, so that the Spirit has a reason to bless the Word and descent on us again. Are we shallowing down our doctrine? Do we keep silent on matters where we should not?

He further goes on to say that we probably have the wrong doctrine and idea of what a revival really is, and how the Spirit would like to work, and therefore, by necessary consequence, revivals don’t happen, and the church sinks more and more. Is this true? Have we eclipsed the Spirit, and given him only the place of the Word? Would he like to baptize the assembly like he did on Pentecost, but our theology won’t allow for it, and therefore we don’t pray for it, and therefore he won’t go for it? Reading stories of the old revivals, that certainly is far away from the experiences we hear in our assemblies.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Polanus1561]

Men think they are women, women men, and they get their blessing from the church aswell.

If you mix up the church that does this with the true church of Christ, you are going to have a hard time.

 

[davejonescue]

This is my take within my limited global context. Christianity thrives in hardship, and many times weakens with ease. When we compare the sincerity, effort, and willingness to suffer for Christ between the developed nations, and underdeveloped nations; we overwhelmingly see the underdeveloped nations more willing not only to live for the Gospel, but die for it. A good example of this is a story I read concerning the UMC. During its conventional delegations, for the past several years, it has been almost entirely the African delegates that stopped them from approving homosexual ordination and same-sex marriage until the inevitable schism occurred over the issue. Because of these representatives from underdeveloped nations, they were unable to secure the votes necessary to pass the measure.

When we look at the churches in Revelation, Jesus is speaking to numerous church types that exist simultaneously. Another example of this could be the idea behind this whole board, and that is the Puritan era. We often look to them as a beacon of almost unparalleled orthodoxy, especially in comparison to our current North American climate; but, that church was bred in a climate of hardship. Many of those ministers lost their pulpits, were hunted down, were stripped of their goods, were imprisoned, were disfigured, and some ultimately killed. The most persecution I have read about a North American minister since I have been a Christian was during the COVID crisis where a Canadian pastor spent 30 days in protective custody in the county jail and got about $45,000 in donations while doing so. I have been to county jail; sitting in a single cell while making $1500 a day is hardly hardship (though it can be an inconvenience for someone not accustomed to incarceration.) In contrast, we can pair this to the story of the Non-Conformist Thomas DeLaune, who when reacting to a sermon about conformity published a treatise on where the non-conformists were having issues, was thrown in jail. While in jail, his family was moved in with him, where they, with him, slowly died of starvation and lack of ventilation within the blackness of their cell blocks.

So, I think a good answer is, I believe Jesus is probably whole heartily happy with parts of his church, and unhappy with other parts. I think in America, and the broader developed nations, we somehow think we are the gatekeepers of sound theology, and the example to be followed for the rest of the world. But in reality, if the Lord tarries, and due to present technology; we will see the amazing pleasure of Reformed thought coming out of the Asian, African, Latin American, and hopefully Middle-Eastern communities. This is in contrast to the current situation where 99% of us can look at our bookshelf and only see European Reformed Theologians on our shelf. But for many of these non-European future theologians, it will be bread out of nations who may and many times do have to actually suffer for their Christianity.

North American Christianity is suffering the fate it is, at least in my belief; because we are one of the most developed and richest continents in the world, yet we often times simultaneously chase the American Dream and holiness, but since the American Dream is based on capitalistic prosperity; yet Jesus says we cant serve God and money; we are often times at odds with those ideals that leave many stagnant in the proliferation of the Gospel in our communities, states, nation, and world. The peoples of these undeveloped nations are bred in poverty, hardships, attacks from other religions, etc. And unfortunately for us, their fire produces hot Christians while many times our fire can only reach temps of lukewarm.

So again, God is most likely gloriously happy with his Church globally, but may be disappointed in those nations who were once hot for him but are now either caught in preserving religiosity, or worried about financially prospering at the cost of being ineffective witnesses in their given contexts. Christianity should be establishing the culture, yet, now we mostly react to it in America. And again, that is why those church types are mentioned in Revelation. I am just excited for the day when we will have an African Calvin (dont know if Augustine counts,) an Asian Spurgeon, or a Latin Bavinck. These parts of the world by Gods grace have so much to offer; and if God is smiling at any part of the American church, it would also include those faithful American ministers who are taking the time to train these men from other nations, so that they can go back to those nations, and combat the less than orthodox American models of Christianity from becoming the norm where they live, and hopefully establish Reformed orthodoxy as the norm instead of a fringe system.

God established his church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. In that hope, we should eagerly expect its triumphant victory no matter how bleak the present situation seems.

 

[Ed Walsh]

What do you think of the church, as it is today, all over the world?

I said what I had to say on Monday on another thread.
Here's a link to my post:

The need for an Ecumenical Council from all Conservative Churches​

 

[TheInquirer]

I think no human being knows the true state of the church today as none of us is omniscient. Dial it back to simply knowledge of your own church and we can only judge by what we see which is itself very limited and flawed.

Have faith. Jesus is accomplishing EXACTLY what he wishes to accomplish in the church and His kingdom building plan is going right on schedule.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I think no human being knows the true state of the church today as none of us is omniscient.

Jesus is accomplishing EXACTLY what he wishes to accomplish in the church and His kingdom building plan is going right on schedule.

That is true enough for sure. But wasn't that equally true of the Church in the wilderness? Yes, even then, what you say is accurate and should be a big encouragement to the truly Godly that follow the Lamb wherever he goes. But, I think that your statement is off the subject. The subject is the state of the Church today, not the state of God's Decree.

I think the subject has more to do with how God deals with the Church in her in various circumstances, level of faithfulness, and obedience. Jesus certainly doesn't always treat the Church the same.

Jude 1:5 ESV​

Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt,​

afterward destroyed those who did not believe.​

God has always had his people who were like the men of Issachar. Let us hope to hear from them.

"And of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do;" (1 Chronicles 12:32)​

 

[RamistThomist]

2 Thess. 2

 

[Apologia Christou]

I wonder about this especially: the west seems sold to rainbow mentality, while the east does not. Is this not true? Why? It seems the eastern Muslim and Orthodox countries are holding it back, while our so called church has no power over it. This is not right. This can’t be right. Where does this reality come from? If we’re Christian, this mentality shouldn’t abound, but it does, more and more. It makes no sense to me, it really doesn’t. Church means power, true church should unleash power, where is the power? The holiness? Truth?

 

[Apologia Christou]

This is my take within my limited global context. Christianity thrives in hardship, and many times weakens with ease. When we compare the sincerity, effort, and willingness to suffer for Christ between the developed nations, and underdeveloped nations; we overwhelmingly see the underdeveloped nations more willing not only to live for the Gospel, but die for it. A good example of this is a story I read concerning the UMC. During its conventional delegations, for the past several years, it has been almost entirely the African delegates that stopped them from approving homosexual ordination and same-sex marriage until the inevitable schism occurred over the issue. Because of these representatives from underdeveloped nations, they were unable to secure the votes necessary to pass the measure.

When we look at the churches in Revelation, Jesus is speaking to numerous church types that exist simultaneously. Another example of this could be the idea behind this whole board, and that is the Puritan era. We often look to them as a beacon of almost unparalleled orthodoxy, especially in comparison to our current North American climate; but, that church was bred in a climate of hardship. Many of those ministers lost their pulpits, were hunted down, were stripped of their goods, were imprisoned, were disfigured, and some ultimately killed. The most persecution I have read about a North American minister since I have been a Christian was during the COVID crisis where a Canadian pastor spent 30 days in protective custody in the county jail and got about $45,000 in donations while doing so. I have been to county jail; sitting in a single cell while making $1500 a day is hardly hardship (though it can be an inconvenience for someone not accustomed to incarceration.) In contrast, we can pair this to the story of the Non-Conformist Thomas DeLaune, who when reacting to a sermon about conformity published a treatise on where the non-conformists were having issues, was thrown in jail. While in jail, his family was moved in with him, where they, with him, slowly died of starvation and lack of ventilation within the blackness of their cell blocks.

So, I think a good answer is, I believe Jesus is probably whole heartily happy with parts of his church, and unhappy with other parts. I think in America, and the broader developed nations, we somehow think we are the gatekeepers of sound theology, and the example to be followed for the rest of the world. But in reality, if the Lord tarries, and due to present technology; we will see the amazing pleasure of Reformed thought coming out of the Asian, African, Latin American, and hopefully Middle-Eastern communities. This is in contrast to the current situation where 99% of us can look at our bookshelf and only see European Reformed Theologians on our shelf. But for many of these non-European future theologians, it will be bread out of nations who may and many times do have to actually suffer for their Christianity.

North American Christianity is suffering the fate it is, at least in my belief; because we are one of the most developed and richest continents in the world, yet we often times simultaneously chase the American Dream and holiness, but since the American Dream is based on capitalistic prosperity; yet Jesus says we cant serve God and money; we are often times at odds with those ideals that leave many stagnant in the proliferation of the Gospel in our communities, states, nation, and world. The peoples of these undeveloped nations are bred in poverty, hardships, attacks from other religions, etc. And unfortunately for us, their fire produces hot Christians while many times our fire can only reach temps of lukewarm.

So again, God is most likely gloriously happy with his Church globally, but may be disappointed in those nations who were once hot for him but are now either caught in preserving religiosity, or worried about financially prospering at the cost of being ineffective witnesses in their given contexts. Christianity should be establishing the culture, yet, now we mostly react to it in America. And again, that is why those church types are mentioned in Revelation. I am just excited for the day when we will have an African Calvin (dont know if Augustine counts,) an Asian Spurgeon, or a Latin Bavinck. These parts of the world by Gods grace have so much to offer; and if God is smiling at any part of the American church, it would also include those faithful American ministers who are taking the time to train these men from other nations, so that they can go back to those nations, and combat the less than orthodox American models of Christianity from becoming the norm where they live, and hopefully establish Reformed orthodoxy as the norm instead of a fringe system.

God established his church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. In that hope, we should eagerly expect its triumphant victory no matter how bleak the present situation seems.

Maybe it’s time for a kind of reformation for the eastern countries, which had no part in the first one. We had the blessings of the gospel, look where we are now. Surely God won’t let this go unpunished, we like pigs bathing in the dirt, we who once enjoyed the pearls of his holy gospel.

 

[Ed Walsh]

Orthodox countries are holding it back, while our so called church has no power over it. This is not right. This can’t be right. Where does this reality come from?

Look no further than the fallen nature of man gone amuck since the Church has become the laughingstock of the West. And that is not because of righteousness where it should be expected, but because of the exact opposite. The Church has made about as much impact on your culture as dipping your finger into a cup of coffee and then removing it.

 

[davejonescue]

Maybe it’s time for a kind of reformation for the eastern countries, which had no part in the first one. We had the blessings of the gospel, look where we are now. Surely God won’t let this go unpunished, we like pigs bathing in the dirt, we who once enjoyed the pearls of his holy gospel.

God hasnt let it go unpunished. Look at the state we are in.

This is a thing that gets me, and it always has. For instance, in America, Barna did a study that says 70% of professing youngsters will disavow the faith before graduating college. Yet, you ask a majority of Christians if they are saving up for their child to go to college, 99% will say they are. Why, because of the pursuit of economic affluency. We can see the poll, we can see where the kids are falling away, but the thought of a child being poor or on a lower income bracket, is more frightening for many Christian parents, than to think their child will become an Atheist. Again, we are being punished, and we have been for some time.

 

[Apologia Christou]

God hasnt let it go unpunished. Look at the state we are in.

You call that punishment? All that is is preparation for the slaughter. So it is said that the Jews, after killing Jesus, abound in all kind of wickedness. The iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And then came judgment day.

 

[davejonescue]

You call that punishment? All that is is preparation for the slaughter. So it is said that the Jews, after killing Jesus, abound in all kind of wickedness. The iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And then came judgment day.

Yet, the elect does not have to fear.

"Son of man, if a land sins against Me by acting unfaithfully, and I stretch out My hand against it to cut off its supply of food, to send famine upon it, and to cut off from it both man and beast, 14then even if these three men— Noah, Daniel, and Job— were in it, their righteousness could deliver only themselves, declares the Lord GOD."

If we are prepared, like the Bible tells us to be; if we are seeking righteousness, like the Bible tells us to be; it will be well with our souls regardless if the earth burns around us. Judgment does begin in the house of the Lord, but that doesnt mean all in the house will be found in fault. God has and will always secure himself a remnant, because if he did not, we would all go the way of Sodom. This is another reason to continually pray to be purged, and give praise for the grace of every step in our sanctification. As we will stand naked before our God alone, so might God choose to save us alone out of a land he judges.

All is in Gods hands, He is love, and He is never wrong.

 

[TheInquirer]

Ed,

I just don't know of anyone who can honestly and accurately answer the OP's question. Who has that kind of knowledge?

Regarding the church in the wilderness, we had God's opinion of their spiritual condition through Moses and future writers of Scripture through the infallible knowledge of the Holy Spirit. Who has that kind of knowledge today?

Another example - look at the churches in Revelation and in the New Testament letters. What was the state of those churches? Wasn't their spiritual condition so diverse as to to be extremely hard to characterize? Is Corinth really like Thessalonica or Colosse? And we have the benefit of supernatural insight into those churches through the Bible. We don't have that today.

Every church is different and has its own problems. The sins of the age do not affect every church the same way. Some compromise, some stand fast, some struggle with this or that.

I have only been in 3 churches over 27 years and I could not even characterize the 3 the same way let alone every church in America or anywhere else.

 

[Apologia Christou]

Yet, the elect does not have to fear.

"Son of man, if a land sins against Me by acting unfaithfully, and I stretch out My hand against it to cut off its supply of food, to send famine upon it, and to cut off from it both man and beast, 14then even if these three men— Noah, Daniel, and Job— were in it, their righteousness could deliver only themselves, declares the Lord GOD."

If we are prepared, like the Bible tells us to be; if we are seeking righteousness, like the Bible tells us to be; it will be well with our souls regardless if the earth burns around us. Judgment does begin in the house of the Lord, but that doesnt mean all in the house will be found in fault. God has and will always secure himself a remnant, because if he did not, we would all go the way of Sodom. This is another reason to continually pray to be purged, and give praise for the grace of every step in our sanctification. As we will stand naked before our God alone, so might God choose to save us alone out of a land he judges.

All is in Gods hands, He is love, and He is never wrong.

Sure, and if you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then flee to the mountains, so that you don’t die.

 

[Apologia Christou]

Ed,

I just don't know of anyone who can honestly and accurately answer the OP's question. Who has that kind of knowledge?

Well, Jesus certainly took fault with the Jews for not recognizing the times and seasons, and their approaching desolation. He even interpreted seemingly occasional disasters (Pilate slaughtering the sacrificing Galileans, and the tower which fell in Siloam) as signs of their coming destruction: if you won’t repent, who will likewise (in the same way, bloody and cruel) perish. So this would indicate that God providentially gives forewarnings, and we would be wise to pay close attention.

 

[RamistThomist]

I wonder about this especially: the west seems sold to rainbow mentality, while the east does not. Is this not true? Why? It seems the eastern Muslim and Orthodox countries are holding it back, while our so called church has no power over it. This is not right. This can’t be right. Where does this reality come from? If we’re Christian, this mentality shouldn’t abound, but it does, more and more. It makes no sense to me, it really doesn’t. Church means power, true church should unleash power, where is the power? The holiness? Truth?

Slavic countries oppose homosexuality, but they are not holding the line on sexual morality in general. The abortion rate in post-Communist Russia, even Putin's Russia, is abysmal.

 

[Charles Johnson]

Slavic countries oppose homosexuality, but they are not holding the line on sexual morality in general. The abortion rate in post-Communist Russia, even Putin's Russia, is abysmal.

This is true in general. Poland is a somewhat happy exception.

 

[Ed Walsh]

Every church is different and has its own problems. The sins of the age do not affect every church the same way. Some compromise, some stand fast, some struggle with this or that.

I'm just speaking very generally. Keep in mind that I have a broad view of the Church. Indeed not only the Reformed churches, but I include all churches that have not become a synagogue of Satan. Unless you think I'm going off judging again, I'm excluding only the most wayward churches like the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses. I include broad Evangelical churches among the church in the West.

I know enough Church history, and you probably do too, to know that the history of the church is that it is prone to backsliding. Then there is a mighty work of the Holy Spirit that is unexpected and broader spread than imaginable, sometime millions are converted as it were overnight. Things are much better, and they last a while and then begin to deteriorate again. The cycle started at Pentecost and continued through the centuries. I know a little of the history of the 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries. And while the work of God to revive the church varies, it is unexpected and mighty beyond everybody's hope, except for the small bands of prayer warriors that do believe--that do pray and expect things that are greater than we can even imagine.

 

[TheInquirer]

So this would indicate that God providentially gives forewarnings, and we would be wise to pay close attention.

I guess it depends what forewarnings you are alluding to, and one's eschatological expectations shade the answering to your original question and the forewarnings as well, but I stand by my point - who can accurately make a statement that characterizes the present condition of the church when there is a lack of knowledge to answer such a question and there is so much diversity?

The problem with your original question is it leads to inaccurate statements that then get repeated as fact. For instance:

• The church has gone woke! - Not my church or any conservative evangelical churches I am aware of in my city
• The church has gone liberal! - Not my church or any conservative evangelical churches I am aware of in my city
• The church is unfaithful to the word of God! - not my church and varies in the churches I am aware of in my city depending on how one would even define unfaithfulness

And so on.

And it begs the question - which churches are you wanting to include in your original question? Are we going to lump every church and denomination that claims the term "Christian" into that evaluation?

I could not possibly assess and answer the question regarding the churches in my own city let alone anything on a larger scale. Can you?

Here are the markers from Scripture that I expect to see:

• The gospel will be preached to all nations
• The exact number of the elect will be gathered from all nations
• There will be various kinds of opposition to the gospel
• Jesus will return

My dispensational background primed all of us to read the tea leaves in the news articles and make foolish statements about where we were at in the schme of God's overall plan. It has led to many false prophets.

Furthermore, I will ask a heart and motive question - is answering that question dogmatically a product of arrogance, assuming knowledge one doesn't really have? I am not making any accusations but I do put the question out there for self-reflection.

I leave these passages for consideration:

• 1 Kings 19:9-18 - Elijah, hiding in a cave, bewails his ill-perceived conception that he is the only faithful prophet left and is rebuked by the Lord because there are 7,000 others and he needs to stop hiding in a cave and get on with the work
• Mark 4:26-29 - The Kingdom of God grows in ways that are not apparent to us - 26 And he said, “The kingdom of God is as if a man should scatter seed on the ground. 27 He sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and grows; he knows not how. 28 The earth produces by itself, first the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear. 29 But when the grain is ripe, at once he puts in the sickle, because the harvest has come.”

My point is this - there needs to be humility on our end to admit that we don't know much and a great confidence in Christ on the other side of the coin that He is caring for His church and everything is proceeding as planned. He is the King of Kingdom and the High Priest over His church. It is all in the hands of the Good Shepherd.

 

[Polanus1561]

Think of the question in terms of “How is the bride of Christ” and you may have new perspectives

 

[TheInquirer]

And while the work of God to revive the church varies, it is unexpected and mighty beyond everybody's hope

Yes and it is unexpected because of our lack of knowledge. My reading of church history is that things have played out in a way that I would never have predicted. The massive threat of Arianism and the dominance of Roman Catholicism and the surprising revival of the Reformation - I would have pronounced the church dead at many points if I were relying on my own understanding and assessment of things.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I think I'm done with the thread, at least for tonight.
Except to say that I think it is righteous overmuch to consider yourselves so humble as not to be able to tell the difference between the oneness prayed for by Jesus in John 17 and our day.

Question: Are not Jesus' prayers also prophesies?

Matthew 16:2-3​

But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.​

And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.​

Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?​

​

You might want to check out the following from the PB:

Discerning the Signs of the Times and the Church’s Reformation

Discerning The Times
by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones​

 

[AOB]

Hello brothers and sisters,

What do you think of the church, as it is today, all over the world? Are you satisfied? What do you wish, and why? Are there any problems, which are they? What are the solutions? Are there any obvious errors, any wisdom to take from the past? Did we ever have such a time as it is now, and what are the chief obstacles to revivals? Do you think God likes what he sees, in his church, and in the world? What do we have to change, where do we most obviously and strongly have to repent? Are we blind to some obvious sins? Why is that, and what are they?

Basically, pour your heart out, tell me what you think, where are we now, and where are we heading? Are you at ease in Zion?

I don’t like what I see. Church seems weak and miserable beyond measure. Reformation light seems vanished, and all heat gone. What impact does the church have in the world and on the world? I see the rainbow flags here everywhere in Germany, outside and in churches. Men think they are women, women men, and they get their blessing from the church aswell. How did we get here? Surely this didn’t come from nowhere. Atheism and relativism abounds, witchcraft and the occult arises, people only think money and success and openly declaring their filthy lusts. The school systems are penetrated with all kinds of stuff openly hostile and contradictory to biblical truth. Sometimes I wonder, the country where the Reformation began, and soon afterwards the breeding place of so many scholars who always find new innovative ways of attacking the Bible from all angles. Satan certainly did a great job, here.

Where is the churches impact? It is, basically, zero, and it gets worse and worse. How so? How is this possible? Certainly there has to be a reason for it. Been listening to some lectures from Lloyd-Jones regarding Revival, his take on that, and what he thinks. He says we need strong preaching, we need to purify our doctrine, so that the Spirit has a reason to bless the Word and descent on us again. Are we shallowing down our doctrine? Do we keep silent on matters where we should not?

He further goes on to say that we probably have the wrong doctrine and idea of what a revival really is, and how the Spirit would like to work, and therefore, by necessary consequence, revivals don’t happen, and the church sinks more and more. Is this true? Have we eclipsed the Spirit, and given him only the place of the Word? Would he like to baptize the assembly like he did on Pentecost, but our theology won’t allow for it, and therefore we don’t pray for it, and therefore he won’t go for it? Reading stories of the old revivals, that certainly is far away from the experiences we hear in our assemblies.

Let me know what you think.

As has been alluded to, there are simply too many questions within the post and too little knowledge on our part to answer satisfactorily. But in response to a few questions that you raised above, I do want to offer my own perspective in my own context:

1. Certainly the school system has been infiltrated by various ideologies and worldliness. I witnessed it firsthand as I taught math in a public high school for three years. At the same time, in my classes I had a number of students who brought their bibles to class and would read silently whenever they finished their work. I never witnessed this in my own high school days and was very encouraged.

2. You said that the church seems weak and miserable. 13 years ago the church that I am now a part of was on the verge of collapse. It had dwindled down from over 100 to 40 members, was 700k in debt, and was split into various factions. As of today, the church is debt free, there are over 250 members, and there is unity and peace in the congregation. In one month alone last year, we added 23 communicant members, with the majority professing their number one reason for joining being that Christ was preached and central in all of life. We saw an entire Mormon family be converted to Christ. And we continually see our members spreading the gospel in the community.
3. Even in our own presbytery, we’ve had several successful church plants in the last 5 years. One of those (in the last three years) is in downtown Asheville, one of the most liberal cities in the U.S., and is flourishing with over 200 members, many of which are young professionals seeking to spread the gospel within the city.

These are only 3 examples of many that I could point to, all for the purpose of saying that the Spirit is at work and continuing to build His Church. I sympathize with the temptation to look at the revivals in the days of the Reformation, the Puritans, and Lloyd Jones and to feel discouraged by what we see around us at times. But by the same token, my own eyes and ears have been greatly encouraged by the gospel ministry that I have seen and heard over the last two years in my own context. And this doesn’t even consider all that I don’t know! Both within my own state, country, and the broader world.

I say all of that as an encouragement brother. Thank you for posing the question.

 

[CovenantPatriot87]

I think God is well pleased with the work he is doing in his church. If he is happy, we out to rest in his labor because he will finish what he started (Phillip 1:6).

Not taking this back. Ya"ll can be melancholy, but I'll take a hard pass on that .

 

[Ben Zartman]

I wonder about this especially: the west seems sold to rainbow mentality, while the east does not. Is this not true? Why? It seems the eastern Muslim and Orthodox countries are holding it back, while our so called church has no power over it. This is not right. This can’t be right. Where does this reality come from? If we’re Christian, this mentality shouldn’t abound, but it does, more and more. It makes no sense to me, it really doesn’t. Church means power, true church should unleash power, where is the power? The holiness? Truth?

You speak as though Christianity was some political power, which it is not. The Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone that believes: it is not intended to bring some external form of forced chastity imposed on an unwilling society by fundamentalists. The Muslims legislate against homosexuality. Does that make their abhorrent and idolatrous religion in any way good? Does their religion at all recommend them to God?
You want the church to do what it was never intended to do (perhaps theonomists disagree, but.....), and you're getting all worked up about it, forgetting that whatever the world does, you have a personal duty to love God and keep his commandments. You want power? The power the church has is to call God's elect from every corner of the globe (with apologies to the flat-earthers among us...), knowing that He will surely save all for whom Christ died. I can't think what more you want than that.

 

[Northern Crofter]

 

[Apologia Christou]

You speak as though Christianity was some political power, which it is not.

So Christianity shouldn't have political or social impact? The gospel that is the power to holiness can be silent and within it's own corners? The light of the world, the city on the hilltop, that leaves the world in darkness, and is not seen by anyone? How can this be?

Doesn't church history teach better?

 

[Apologia Christou]

external form of forced chastity

I am not talking about that. But the fruit of the gospel is a sweet and free chastity, willingly and lovingly performed. So probably there is no real gospel anymore, not to the extent that it should be, and God just doing business in saving the rest of his flock before judgment is coming. And I don't mean the end of the world.

 

[Apologia Christou]

I think God is well pleased with the work he is doing in his church. If he is happy, we out to rest in his labor because he will finish what he started (Phillip 1:6).

Not taking this back. Ya"ll can be melancholy, but I'll take a hard pass on that .

I think you confuse his revealed and secret will, brother. How can he be happy?