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What about men who act like animals...
How do the following facts tie together:
1. Man is made in God's image and therefore has a rational-moral nature.
2. Animals seem to act with compassion and possibly morality.
Animals, being part of a fallen world but not sinners themselves, will obey God's will in all circumstances. Thus, since we have a compassionate and moral God, the animals will reflect this- even when those who carry His image don't.
Animals, being part of a fallen world but not sinners themselves, will obey God's will in all circumstances. Thus, since we have a compassionate and moral God, the animals will reflect this- even when those who carry His image don't.
It is against God's will that animals attack human beings, and there is the death penalty for them (which helps take dangerous behavior out of the gene pool). Animals don't always follow the will of God. We could probably think of a dozen other examples where animals don't obey the will of God.
How did you get from fallen to God reflecting?
The reason I ask this is because we had a guest lecturer at the university who was trying to promote more compassionate treatment towards animals. He cited pictures of mothers passionately protecting and caring for their young and told a story of a happy-go-lucky monkey who died within a week of his mother's death, apparently due to grief. Further, I love my dog and it really seems that she is truly emotional and compassionate towards her family. In fact, my mom has even told me she thinks that dogs' loyalty is an excellent reflection of our Father's faithfulness (capital "F").
My point is that it seems like animals genuinely represent emotions, and it seems far too simple and self-blinded to declare that we are just misperceiving them and they are really without any of that. I'm not saying this undermines the Bible or anything, but I'm asking how we ought interpret these in light of the fact that man alone is made in God's image. What exactly does being made in God's image entail? etc.
I challenge you to find a single example from Scripture of a disobedient animal.
28 "If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded of him, he may redeem his life by paying whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels [f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.
So would you say they have emotion and sentience, but no rational-moral nature? This would make sense without blurring the distinction between man and animal.
After all, it is entirely plausible that the perceived morality that animals have is purely pragmatic (e.g. "don't steal or you hurt yourself" rather than "You shall not steal. I am the Lord") and not based on holy justice.
I challenge you to find a single example from Scripture of a disobedient animal.
I don't have to. Ex. 21
28 "If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death. 30 However, if payment is demanded of him, he may redeem his life by paying whatever is demanded. 31 This law also applies if the bull gores a son or daughter. 32 If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels [f] of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.
The fact that God sent lying spirits, had animals kill humans etc.. doesn't mean it's in God's revealed will that to tell a lie is good or that when a pit bull rips apart a baby that it's acting according to God's will!!!
If I agree to your position, I'd also have to agree that animals have the will to obey or disobey God- something that only man can and does do.
Sinless animals? I thought they had to be without blemish.
If I agree to your position, I'd also have to agree that animals have the will to obey or disobey God- something that only man can and does do.
No, you would just have to agree with me that animals are fallen. We don't have to bring sin into it.
It is against God's will that animals attack human beings, and there is the death penalty for them
I already agree and clearly stated that animals- indeed all creation, fell in Adam. But to not obey the will of God is sin- something that you claimed they do-
I already agree and clearly stated that animals- indeed all creation, fell in Adam. But to not obey the will of God is sin- something that you claimed they do-
No, you don't have to willingly sin to be fallen. The old guy who has cancer didn't necessarily sin, but it could very have been the results of the fall. The pit bull that rips a baby in half can be acting outside of the will that God has for His creation, but we don't need to bring in sin. Even when you (jokingly I'm sure) said a few hours ago that you occasionally have sex with animals, the animals have to die, but in that case the sin would be yours and the punishment would also extend to the animals, as that behavior is outside the will of God.